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Sedans Luxury Performance Sedans
9978 messages, Last post on Nov 02, 2009 at 1:30 PM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
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some folks in these threads appear to never respond directly to certain other folks, I'll make some observations as well. In general, I'd agree that the people who care most about actually driving (I've waited & waited for responses to posts describing long drives -- Mt. Evans, PCH, Cabot trail, etc.) end up with German cars. That said, I've never owned one. I may, one day, but not so far. I've bugled at length over the past six years or so about reliability/maintainability/longevity and have eventually learned that almost no one who posts on Edmunds cares. Most lease and/or are upside down on their financing. They end up with more car than they can afford and/or don't keep the thing long enough to do any number of things, one of which is to repair it after the warranty has run out. I've owned my present (American) vehicle for over six years. I drive & talk about both driving and where I've been & how it went. I've been in all but North Dakota, PEI & Newfoundland in North America (the civilized bit) & in enough of the continent & the UK to feel very comfortable there. Go figure.
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Replying to: cdnpinhead (Jul 25, 2006 4:19 pm)
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Replying to: designman (Jul 25, 2006 4:46 pm) I've driven three vehicles in excess of 100K miles, two in excess of 200K. Having lived with them for the time it took to accumulate those miles, I've come to expect certain things. Several of those things no longer exist. One is maintainability. Today's cars are near impossible to work on -- it's imperative to take it to the shop. That said, I still do oil, filters, brakes -- that sort of thing. More than anything else it gives me an opportunity to see whether the vehicle was designed to be easy to work on. If not, you'll pay at the store. I was sucked into my present vehicle by a very clever (or I'm stupid, equally probable) advertising campaign, combined with CR (OMG) and COTY (OMG squared) magazine stuff. There are a lot of reasons why I'll never buy another Ford product, but the car itself isn't one of them. It's had a few issues in the 97K miles I've driven it so far, but it's built buy an outfit that does taxis, police cars & limos. There's every possibility it'll last into those 100 - 200K mile ranges I've grown emamored of. My next car? A RWD diesel with good handling. There are none sold in the U.S. or Canada. I'll continue driving what I've got until it drops dead or until BMW brings one of dozens of cars that they sell elsewhere, here. YMMV. |
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Replying to: markcincinnati (Jul 25, 2006 2:34 pm) I do agree with you on this. Here's the way I look at it. Cars from each geographical regions have different strengths and weaknesses, based on the environment they are designed in, and the customers they are designed for. The American idea of performance is the stop light dragster, where straight line 0-60 performance is all important. The only thing that matters is how big is the V-8, and how many horses does it have. Sophisticated suspensions, engines, or gearboxes don't matter. The quintessential American performance car is the Mustang GT. The German idea of performance is the 'bahn burner, a car that defines state-of-the-art, blending luxury and performance for traveling at 180mph in perfect comfort. The quintessential German performance car is the Porsche 911. The Japanese idea of performance is efficiency. You don't need a big honkin' V-8 if your car is small and light, and you don't need luxury and comfort at 180mph because there's no where in Japan to drive like that. The quintessential Japanese performance car is the Honda S2000. The LPS is a German idea. The Americans and the Japanese are learning how to do that kind of car, but it doesn't really come naturally the way it does for BMW. I think thats why the 5 and E are still the clear sales leaders in this segment.
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Replying to: lexusguy (Jul 25, 2006 9:00 pm) You risk bringing the conversation to a screeching halt if you start conversing reasonably. 
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Replying to: dhanley (Jul 25, 2006 9:04 pm) Have to believe about what Mark Cincinnati says about out of warranty repairs----"breathtakingly expensive!" I will have to pay for the water pump/timing belt portion of the repair (about $1500.00) because that was maintenance, not so-called warranty repair, the belt did not break in service. When the Audi is finally repaired on Friday,time to either sell it outright or trade towards something else, I don't want to pay $2000 for the air conditioning, or $5000 when the tiptronic transmission goes out next. Probably going to join the world of leasing. Since I will always have a car payment, why not drive a new one every 3 years with repairs covered, instead of a payment and the cost of service on top? |
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Replying to: markcincinnati (Jul 25, 2006 2:34 pm) |
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Replying to: marleybarr (Jul 26, 2006 7:56 am) I'm not sure i understand your comment with regard to payments & repairs. While $4000 is a lot of money, what are even lease payments going to be on a car like the 2.7T? As per the audi website, a $0 down lease on a base 3.2 is going to be $738/mo. After tax, perhaps $800? That means that unless you have you make a $4000 repair every 5 months, leasing isn't cheaper. Now, i understand the attraction of having a newer car with a warranty, i really do. I may lease my next car, but i am not under the impression i'll be saving money if i do. |
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Replying to: dhanley (Jul 26, 2006 8:50 am) Having said that I certainly agree with the equally broad generalization that most people who buy Japanese LPS's really don't care about the fun stuff.
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Replying to: lansdownemike (Jul 26, 2006 9:19 am) That may be true in "generality", but I have to say I am an exception to that rule. The deciding factor on my purchase of an M45 Sport (besides all the neat toys) was acceleration only slightly less torrid than a BMW M3, auto camber rear wheel turn-in for cornering, .90 G skid pad results, a nearly roll free body, and grippy 19" wheels. My only regret was that a manual transmission was not available, a complaint shared by many Lexus owners. To me, "Fun Stuff". |
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