Last post on Nov 25, 2013 at 11:27 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan
#790 of 10348 Re: Leuxs GS300 [liy]
Feb 17, 2005 (1:55 am)
Good point! The AWD is only a $2000 option on the GS so I may have to look again. However, with the "base" AWD version starting at about 49K (does not include ML or Nav), I just feel you're not getting the driving dynamics of other cars in it's price class. I wasn't 100% serious about the Avalon, as it is a FWD car, but if a comfortable, luxurious highway cruiser with plenty of pick-up ( and Toyota quality) is important, I would take a look at it. Obviously, there's a world of difference in the dealership experience and the prestige level.
I have been waiting for a while for the new GS to come out. I had a ES300 in 1997 and a Toyota Camry prior to that which were incredible vehicles in terms of comfort and reliability. I want to go back! I have a Audi A4 that has been fun, but with 78K on it, I cross my fingers everyday! However, this little A4 is so fun to drive I'm looking for a something that has both. At this point I'm going to keep looking...
PS: The engine IS incredible. The saleman says it is the most fuel efficient non-hybrid Lexus to date. 23 City, 30 Highway certainly beats what I'm hearing from the Acura RL owners!
Feb 17, 2005 (3:13 pm)
Saw the new GS yesterday in that olive green color looks mighty darn nice. Love the bright jewel like tail light lenses. The chrome trim band around the windows sure pops out. Looks nothing like the old GS.
Feb 17, 2005 (5:09 pm)
If you want AWD, better than Audi sport and handling, and almost Lexus levels of luxury and content, for a better price, I think you're going to like the M35x very, very much.
#793 of 10348 Re: ckelly14 [lexusguy]
Feb 17, 2005 (7:25 pm)
I drove the M45 for quite awhile yesterday. Overall impressive and powerful, but wasn't too impressed with some of the interior materials and some other componenets, like the door seals. Just rub your hand across them and they come right out of the tracks. And despite much better tires, it didn't corner as crisply as the RL. I thought the dash was very gimmicky. Almost made me appreciate the BMW 545 in terms of lack of stuff. Almost. In terms of real price optioned out, the 545 an M45 are within 10-15% of each other. I think the 545 will eat it alive in driving dynamics however.
#794 of 10348 Re: ckelly14 [jmatthe]
Feb 18, 2005 (6:09 am)
I drove the M35 yesterday. Certainly at the top of my list. I agree that the dash is incredibly busy, but I did like the feel of the car on the road and the driving comfort compared to the GS 300 and the Acura RL. The GS felt sporty (interior-wise, not driving-wise) but somewhat cramped, while the RL felt larger and "more open" (i.e. not cockpit-like)- Sorry, I'm no journalist in regard to my adjectives. I would likely buy the M35 with the journey package and satellite radio only, so the MSRP would be 43,600. This is certainly at the other end of the scale compared to the 545 and the M45.
I need to drive the BMW (530) again to compare. I too agree that as much as we complain about the I-drive or the the MMI in the Audi, those interiors are looking better and better! Perhaps having some of those buttons underneath a flip-up cover a la the Lexus SC430?
If I had to choose today (which I don't), my favorites would be:
1. A6 3.2 (47K)
2. M35 (43K)
3. BMW 530 (48 K)
4. Acura RL (49 K)
5. GS 300 (47 K)
The Audi is out for lack of a local dealership. If I had to buy, it may be the M35 but I'll keep looking.
#795 of 10348 Re: ckelly14 [jmatthe]
Feb 18, 2005 (7:16 am)
With you being the owner of an RL, I can't believe you'd call the M's dash "very gimmicky." If that ain't the pot calling the kettle black...
I drove the M45 a few days ago. It's very nice and felt really nimble and tight. I found the interior and its materials to be very good. As I posted on another forum, I can't imagine the new GS being better enough to justify its premium over the M. And just when I thought you couldn't put much more techno stuff in a car, the M has way more gee-whiz-golly gadgets than the RL. The one thing that I didn't like the most was that the instrument panel isn't tilted enough to provide a good view of all the buttons and stuff at a quick glance. I'm sure one could get used to it, but as we were testing it out, I had to stare at the panel for quite some time (relative to driving) just to find the "ON" button for the climate control; the other half was driving, of course. We LOVE the backup camera and its features! It has lines that move with the steering wheel to tell you how the front wheels are angled. The rear video display is sweet, too. It's almost like being on a plane because you can open it and set it to display the navigation for the rear passengers. We thought that was cool, too.
There are certainly "prettier" cars out there, but I definitely wouldn't kick the M out of my garage if it was parked there (as long as it was mine). I mentioned to the other half that we should drive the M35 just to see how it feels, but she was adamant about NOT even bothering. She gets addicted to power. I was figuring that since I have my new Mustang GT, I don't have to have a V8 in the lux car, and it would save me six grand to boot. But that 345HP did feel good. You don't even have to floor it to get good pep. And it sure sounds sweet.
Anyway, I'm rambling and my thoughts are running together. I'll finish by saying that it takes a little getting used to the "solar eclipse lighting," but you very quickly get used to it and soon don't really notice it. After you get accustomed to it, it is a nice warm glow. It can definitely be overpowering if you don't dim it!
#796 of 10348 GS vs. M
Feb 18, 2005 (1:57 pm)
Looked at both the 2006 Infiniti M35 and the 2006 Lexus GS 300 in the last few days.
I want a nice car with a lot of features but I also value performance more than the average luxury buyer. I am not a typical "luxury" car buyer- I don't give a hoot about prestige and styling is not at the top of my concerns. As matter of fact if a Toyota or Honda met my needs I would by them instead. I just want the best possible combination of features, reliability, performance, roominess, and value for $$$. Probably would be the ideal BMW buyer but I value reliability and value for $$ in addition to performance and features. This leads me to Japanese luxury/performance sedans.
Exterior styling- GS probably looks a little better but they both look good. Given my preferences, I would call the styling even and let other issues determine which way to go.
Couple of nit picky complaints about the GS- to pop the trunk you have to push a button to open up a hidden dashboard panel to reveal more buttons. Bottom line, it takes two separate button pushes to open the trunk. This is stupid. I open my trunk once every day or two for one reason or another and pushing two buttons to open the trunk would be a minor but aggravating annoyance.
Rear seat leg room did not appear to be as good as the M (I'm 6'0"). Once I adjusted the driver's seat to where I would be happy I moved to the backseat- my knees touch in the GS but not the M. I have a family of 5 so the rear seat is of interest to me. Also, the rear head room- I found my head grazing the head liner in the back seat of the GS but not in the M (I also have noticed the headroom problem in the rear of the G35 as well). Why are they building cars where a 6'person cannot sit up straight in the backseat? I did not have this problem in my Mustang 25 years ago.
Trunk opening, GS- too small kind of like the Nissan Maxima opening. It's great to have a roomy trunk but a pain if you are trying to fit anything bulky in the trunk like golf clubs. Why don't they make the trunk opening larger? My old G20 had a larger trunk opening than the new GS for crying out loud!
Wood. The Lexus wood has such a thick coat of polyurethene on it that it looks almost like plastic. The M has more of a satin finish on the wood and the grain of the wood comes through. This is personal preference but I think the M wood looks a lot more natural. I guess if you like a shiny/slippery kind of wood look the GS is better. The M's wood looks kind of like the wood in the old Benzs from the late '60s or early '70s IMO. Also, I personally don't like the wood steering wheel in the Lexus I would rather have a leather wrapped wheel.
These admittedly are very minor issues but considering the Infiniti is less expensive with a better warranty and has more of a performance focus probably enough to push me to the M and not the GS. Admittedly the GS has a nicer overall interior but I think the M is certainly good enough for me and I would rather save the $3 to $4 grand and pick up some performance.
I also have a lot of confidence in the reliability of the new M. 60% of its components are from the G35 which has proven itself very well and it is made in Japan (getting rare). Is the GS made in Japan or is it now made in North America? Unlike some critics I have no problem with a manufacturer using well performing, proven components in a new vehicle. Kind of like Toyota using the Camry as the base for the Lexus ES.
I am sure the GS will sell very well. If you value prestige, luxury and interior refinement over price and performance (as many do) the Lexus would be your car. The GS really competes with the Audi A6 and the E class Benz where, in my opinion, the M really competes with the BMW 5 series. I am sure there will be some car magazine with GS v M comparos soon. I would be surprised if the M did not win the handling/performance measures (I am talking about the RWD GS 300 vs. the M35 here). Hopefully the M sales will lag some so the deals will be better wi
#797 of 10348 Re: ckelly14 [lexusguy]
Feb 18, 2005 (8:24 pm)
Got anything against the GS ? You are the most ardent admirer of the M twins. What do you like about these cars so much ???
Since looks are subjective, I think the M's styling is quite dull and bland; the GS trumps it marginally. Interior features and layout: No doubt, the win goes to the GS (much cleaner with no knobs to fiddle with as in the M). Tranny smoothness goes to the GS (6-speed better than 5-speed). Handling/performance goes slightly to the M (larger wheels help the M). Feature contents/pricing goes to the M (better pricing no doubt). I'll say the overall package: features, price, performance, luxury, ride, handling, etc... will show the winner, and that won't be until 1 year from now, at the very least.
What is clear however, is that all professional reviews of these cars, to date, have been overwhelmingly positive. Maybe the GS will compete more with the E (not a bad idea), while the M goes hunting for the BMW.
My sleeper MY2006 car will be the IS350 with a reported 315bhp 3.5L V6, mated to a 6-speed stick. If weight can be kept under 3300Ib, one can speculate a mid-to-low 5s 0-60. Of course we won't know until the Geneva auto show when the car is unveiled. Will be in dealer showrooms by August.
Feb 19, 2005 (9:38 am)
I have a few problems with the GS. The 300 is largely carry over technology. It gets none of 430's advanced new tech, where as most of the performance stuff available for M45 is also available on M35. On top of that, I just dont see a reason to buy a GS in 2006. Same reason I wouldnt buy a C or E320 right now. At least if you buy an E500, you can be confident that your V8 wont be replaced for another few years, probably not until the E gets a complete redesign.
BOTH of the GS's engines are due to be scrapped in as little as a year, and in the case of GS300 especially, with a significantly more powerful engine that can actually compete with RL, M35, and E350. (The new 530i will still only have 220ft.lbs of torque, so I dont think it will compete in terms of 0-60 with the above cars).
I like the styling of both the M and GS, so thats not really an issue for me. If I were going to buy a car in this class though, I would want sport to be priority number one, and the GS just doesnt have it. It seems more content in the A6, E, S-type league.
Feb 19, 2005 (1:31 pm)
Since you consistently prefer the M to the GS, you're just going to have to change your handle to Infinitiguy.
Your reasoning about not buying the GS300 now, however, is persuasive. One argument for it, however, besides the sharper handling, the silken 6-speed transmission, and advanced safety equipment, is the much improved mileage of the new V6 over the previous I6 (and the M35, the RL, etc.).
Of course, the new 3.5 V6 in the Avalon, which is probably the basis for the replacement engine in the GS300, equals the mileage in the GS V6. So next year's more powerful 3.5 GS engine will probably be just as fuel thrifty.