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Sedans Luxury Performance Sedans
10007 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 7:40 AM
You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
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Replying to: reality2 (Jul 12, 2006 7:28 pm) |
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Replying to: upuaut (Jul 10, 2006 2:28 pm) 1 gallon = 3.78533 liters 1 mile = 1,6093472 kilometers 1 libra = 2.2046223399 kilograms Are they US or British? I am not sure Regards, Jose
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Replying to: lexusguy (Jul 12, 2006 9:16 pm) I don't know about that. When the car's motto is "built to out-perform", I would like to believe there is a double-meaning: in driving characteristics and in sales. There is no doubt in my mind, the Infiniti M was built specifically as Japan's answer to the BMW 5 series.
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Replying to: hpowders (Jul 13, 2006 3:17 am) It's not realistic to expect the M to outsell the 5. Like it or not, the name "BMW" helps to sell the 5. The M has to sell solely based on the merits of the car itself. It gets no help from the name "Infiniti". Also, this is Infiniti's first foray into this segment. BMW has established customers who've been buying the 5 series for decades. Not saying which car is better or worse, but there are many factors that come into play when it comes to sales other than the merits of that particular model. Toyota could build the world's best full-sized pickup ever, but it still would get outsold by the F series pickup 5 to 1. Brand/model loyalty is a powerful thing.
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I agree that coverage of BMW in the auto mags is often silly. The often-quoted Car and Driver (May, 2005) "sports-luxury" comparison awarded the Infiniti M45 first place, but almost entirely on the basis of rapid acceleration, rather than styling or an anti-iDrive bias. The M45 was put up against the BMW 530i (which meant putting a 335 horse-power Infiniti M model in a drag-strip race against the 225 hp version of the 5-series). Also emphasized was the M's large rear seating space. Similarly, while Motor Trend's comparison test rated two Japanese cars (Acura and Infiniti) ahead of BMW (third place), there was no Bangle-bashing: "The fifth-generation BMW 5 Series, with its flame-cut flanks and take-no-prisoners suspension, hit the ground running in the 2004 model year. Here's a thoroughbred, the product of decades of setting the benchmark all other automaker's sport sedans aspire to. Just look at the stance, the way the body sits on the chassis, ready to pounce on any opportunity to show its stuff on a challenging stretch of road. The smoothness and flexibility of BMW inline-sixes are legendary, and the 225 horses of the 2979cc engine seem more spirited than their numbers might otherwise suggest. And BMW is one of the only automakers courageous enough to offer a six-speed manual gearbox in a $50,000 sedan." Also, if a potential buyer was to consult Consumer Reports to compare BMW 5-series, Audi A6, and Mercedes E-class, they would only find the BMW recommended, with the Mercedes and Audi dismissed as unreliable. So, I don't think the best way to characterize the BMW 5-series sales success is that it is being snapped up by savvy contrarian buyers who are thumbing their noses at CR and at critics of Bangle. BMW simply has the (well-earned) best place in the collective consciousness of buyers with $50,000+ to spend on a car. Mercedes and Audi have been trashed by CR and Mercedes' CEO has had to show up at auto shows promising to improve reliability. And except for Lexus, most buyers in the category targeted by this forum just don't think "Japanese car" when they look for a car with which they identify.
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Replying to: reality2 (Jul 12, 2006 7:28 pm) When you travel by air (such as Boeing 777), the chance that it's going to crash is about 1 in 1 billion (not exact number, but on that order). Another imagined plane, with a rate of 1 in 1 million, is considered extremely unsafe statistically, even though it is still unlikely to happen to you. We all make our choices. I would personally choose that extra order of peace of mind, since it doesn't even cost more.
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Replying to: reality2 (Jul 12, 2006 7:28 pm) I think you're correct, but not in the way your wording implies. You obviously love driving Audis and, having had no trouble with any of your previous Audis, you're strongly, perhaps immutably, inclined to buy more. That all makes sense. Your ownership experiences, however, would not be a reason for someone else to ignore survey data. The reason to ignore surveys would be that the methods of collecting, analyzing, reporting, or drawing inferences from the data are flawed. And many good arguments have been made on this forum to strongly suggest that CR and JDP reports are flawed, especially in that they suggest to readers that they will regret buying most German cars (since, collectively, German car owners have reported an average of 1.5 problems per vehicle, while Japanese car buyers have only reported 1.2 problems per vehicle -- I made up that approximation -- but it's not far off and I think you'll get what I mean). To me, the most persuasive part of your message is not "trust me and not surveys when I tell you your Audi will be trouble-free," but rather "hey, if you love what you see and feel when you test-drive an Audi, get it, and don't be dissuaded by surveys for which you cannot get access to the data and so are pretty limited to what the editors and researchers (of CR and JDP reports) tell you that you should think." On the other hand, as an earlier response (using airplane crash analogy) to your posting suggests, if there was unambiguous data available about car reliability and it showed conclusively that German cars broke down by the side of the road an average of twice a month, while no Japanese car had ever been reported to breakdown, then that would be something to consider. |
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Replying to: killerbunny (Jul 13, 2006 7:19 am) As I arrive safely and unscratched at the airport I would choose to drive off with either a BMW or Audi versus any other car. 
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Replying to: dewey (Jul 13, 2006 8:29 am) As I arrive safely at the airport I would choose to drive off from the airport with either a BMW or Audi versus any other car. Not even a Porsche? 
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Replying to: killerbunny (Jul 13, 2006 8:32 am) 
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