Luxury Performance Sedans

Replying to: hpowders (Jul 07, 2006 7:27 pm)

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• shipo (Jul 09, 2006 8:58 am)
  • carnaught (Jul 09, 2006 9:45 am)
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Replying to: carnaught (Jul 09, 2006 7:50 am)

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• carnaught (Jul 09, 2006 9:45 am)
  • shipo (Jul 09, 2006 11:21 am)
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Replying to: shipo (Jul 09, 2006 8:58 am)

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• shipo (Jul 09, 2006 11:21 am)
  • markcincinnati (Jul 09, 2006 12:21 pm)
    • shipo (Jul 09, 2006 1:11 pm)
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Replying to: carnaught (Jul 09, 2006 9:45 am)

Well, the 530i is more like $49,600+ but the manual is a different bird and with much less feaures for the 530i's almost base price, eh?
 
The base price of a 530i is in fact $47,500. Yes, no? Well, I suppose you could really call it $48,195 with shipping. Where does the $49,600 come from?
 
As far as features, yes, the base 530i does come with a few less goodies, however, it does come with one feature that isn't avalilble on the M at any price. Yup, you guessed it, the manual gearbox, an option that I would willingly pay thousands for. So, comparing a 530i manual with an M35 automatic as close as possible (i.e. both of them with "Sport" trim) to how I would configure them myself, the MSRP would be $55K for the 530i, and $51K for the M35. Of course I wouldn't even dream of buying a 530i for that price. Why? The European Delivery cost for that same $55K 530i is about $49K.
 
Best Regards,
Shipo

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• markcincinnati (Jul 09, 2006 12:21 pm)
  • shipo (Jul 09, 2006 1:11 pm)
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Replying to: shipo (Jul 09, 2006 11:21 am)

I'm with you -- and the difficulty here when we're talking about MSRP has, apparently, little to do with the tco (for the record total cost of ownership for "X" time or miles.)
 
For reasons that have been hashed to death here, BMW appears to be in the car rental business.
 
That is, BMW seems to encourage renting their cars for 4 years or 50 thousand miles or some number of months and miles that will not exceed either 48 or 50,000 respectively.
 
While it IS accurate to state that the Infiniti M35X with Journey, Technology and the equivalent of the BMW 530xi sport package is somewhere between 3 and 5 thousand dollars less based on MSRP, here is what seems to happen:
 
The monthly price for the BMW on a per thousand MSRP basis is lower than the Infiniti. The BMW has free maintenance for the 50K term.
 
The BMW charges less for the stick shift than the auto and the stick isn't even offered on the M35X, at any price.
 
The BMW gets better MPG's and has, in most markets, more magnetism.
 
So, yeah, the BMW will be more money at pure MSRP, but equal to or less than the toc than the Infiniti AND can be had with a stick shift.
 
Game, set, match BMW.
 
Now to mess this nice neat little scenario up:
 
The Audi A6 3.2 Sline is -- of the three (Audi 3.2 SLine, BMW 530xi with the sport package [that offers literally NO sporting/performance or ground effects bits and even requires extra $ for the high perf wheels/tires] and the Infiniti M35X with ground effects and extra cost 19" wheels but no sport suspension, no 6 speed transmission of any shifting quality, etc.) -- is, if one must have the autotrans (95%) the sportiest and arguably most sure footed.
 
The SLine A6 3.2 (or 4.2 V8 if you feel the need for "more speed") is the only one of these cars that actually offers sport wheels/tires (in 18 or 19 inch diam), sport suspension and sport trim. The other cars, from BMW and Infiniti do not offer sport suspensions -- period.
 
One may certainly argue that the Audi needs the sport suspension the most of the three -- and there certainly is some evidence that says, "yup -- the Audi is NOSE heavy and it needs the uprated suspension and tires to counteract its native desire to understeer." Guilty as charged -- but I submit the Sline offering more than offsets most of the front end porkiness of the Audi.
 
BMW must be offering Audi a pass, this once, since they offer a stick shift in a well balanced but under tired and under suspended AWD sports sedan.
 
The BMW with the 18" upgraded wheels/tires in stick shift guise is probably THE choice of a driver wishing maximum control and high levels of performance.
 
But, their statistics must show that folks buying AWD BMW's are even less likely to order a stick shift than those buyers selecting normal 530is.
 
My BMW sales rep friends claim two things: they will NOT order a 5 series with a stick shift PERIOD (if it is for inventory); and, that every 530xi stick that is ordered and the buyer renegs, is immediately snatched up.
 
I ask the logical (to me) follow up question, "why if 5 series cars with stick shifts sell more rapidly than auto versions, (but apparently NOT rapidly enough to 'risk' buying even one per month for inventory purposes?) not order some small quantity for inventory purposes?!)
 
This at a dealer that sells 100 cars a month overall.
 
I'll either get a 5 (or maybe 3) AWD stick (and hope they will offer a true sport suspension) or an A6 or A5 SLine and hope they offer a stick shift or at the very least a DSG transmission.
 
I remain certain I would have been happy with the M35X that I "almost" bought, yet, today, somehow, someway, "nothing seems to satisfy quite like Beef."
 
(excuse me, like a German sedan.)

Replies to this message:
• shipo (Jul 09, 2006 1:11 pm)

Replying to: carnaught (Jul 09, 2006 9:45 am)

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• markcincinnati (Jul 09, 2006 3:37 pm)
  • carnaught (Jul 09, 2006 3:46 pm)

Replying to: markcincinnati (Jul 09, 2006 12:21 pm)

Mark,
 
As you well know, I'm effectively the "Loyal Opposition" when it comes to AWD, and as such I cannot see ever being in the market for an AWD car. That having been said, the A6 S-Line certainly narrows the gap between the A6 and the 5er when AWD is under consideration (as compared to a FWD A6 vs. a 530i SP with a stick). In the AWD scenario, the A6 should well have the advantage over even a "Tarted Up" eighteen inch wheeled 530xi (which cannot be had with a Sport Suspension). What these two come down to is better suspension for the A6 and a better transmission (i.e. one with three pedals) for the 530xi. That then leads to the "Tie-Breaker", which in my mind is the whole ED thing. Mrs. Shipo and I enjoyed our 530i ED experience SOOOOO much that we simply cannot wait to do it again.
 
Winner: the 530xi via a tie-break.
 
Best Regards,
Shipo