Ask the Car People.SM


Luxury Performance Sedans

10338 messages,  Last post on May 01, 2013 at 3:12 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan

Messages Page 771 of 1035

#7695 of 10338 Re: Who cares? [markcincinnati] by sfcharlie

Jul 06, 2006 (4:50 am)

Replying to: markcincinnati (Jul 05, 2006 5:24 pm)
In addition to the options of caring or not caring about anecdotal reports from a friend who owns a car that one is considering, there's also the option of "selective caring".
 
Some, I'd speculate, will read your post and focus on the four trips to dealer to replace push-button-start switch.
 
But if some other reader of your post has driven an Audi A6 and loves it, then it's your year of trouble-free and excited/delighted/engaged driving that they will care about when they read your post and they will be encouraged to get what they really want.
 
I went through a month of debating Audi A6 versus Infinity M35. I kept test-driving the various Audi models versus kept looking at and sitting in the Infinity (and reading all "the Germans have met their match" articles) after a couple of test-drives. To my own retrospective surprise and mild regret, I chose the M35 (despite the most enjoyable test-drive having been the Audi A6 S-Line and despite assurances from you and two friends who drive A6s everyday that there either were no problems or a minor one that was fixed). I can tell already that the tires will need to be switched for something better, especially for driving in rainy season, but also for better and more quiet ride -- the standard Goodyears on the M35 are a not-reported-by-CR $800-$1000 defect in my opinion. Also, qualifying as a defect, IMHO, is Nissan's failure to have done anything over the years to update their (otherwise wonderful) V6 for a better horse-power/mpg ratio. I'd expect either 300+ horsepower from a 2006 engine that drinks a gallon of gas every 17-18 miles, or, conversely, I'd expect 20-21 mpg from an engine that puts out "only" 275 hp (and depends heavily, I now realize, on a transmission that runs at relatively high rpm -- and low mpg -- in every gear, of which there are only five, to create acceleration).

#7696 of 10338 Re: Who cares? [sfcharlie] by markcincinnati

Jul 06, 2006 (5:25 am)

Replying to: sfcharlie (Jul 06, 2006 4:50 am)
I am probably not in any way representative of the typical car owner/operator. And, I think the same is true of my wife.
 
When she first took delivery of her then new BMW X3 in early May, 2005, she was told "first service interval" is either 15,000 miles or when indicated here.
 
"Fifteen THOUSAND miles?!?" I heard her say. Now, truth in advertising, we enjoyed our multiple test drive visits to the Bimmer store. They have TWO Starbuck's gourmet coffee makers for pity's sake! The have a HUGE Internet cafe waiting area and a fridge full of bottled water, juice and sodas of all flavors. All the employees in the service department are wearing white coats and have great bedside manners. Every Saturday is free carwash day and the line for the wash is sometimes hundreds of yards long, yet people sit in line, queuing up for their hand car wash and vacuum -- and fresh pastry, fruit, coffee and so on.
 
What do they put in the water, I often wonder.
 
The quattro cafe at my Audi dealer is much the same kind of affair -- and both of these dealerships are known to have several annual closed store affairs, picnics, grill outs, tours and customer orientation soires.
 
Going to the dealership for us once every 10 or 15,000 miles would practically feel like punishment. We WANT to go more often.
 
See, I told you we're not typical.
 
Our current BMW "client advisor" was an intern when my wife got her new X3 -- he was a senior and he was a German studies student who we met up with in Munich while we were there on vacation and while he was on his one semester of overseas studies.
 
See, who actually vaca's with their car salesmen other than odd couples like us?
 
My four trips to the dealer for new starter switch buttons were, from the odd couple point of view, good excuses to catch up on the inventory, talk with the service manager, sales manager and sales people and take a few test drives just for the heck of it. About the only thing we haven't driven is a W12 A8L and RS4, in fact.
 
So, while the failure of the part (the switch) may be the focus for some, for us it has been (from a certain point of view) a treat masquerading as an unscheduled service visit.
 
I needed my tires rotated last week, so I dropped by and they gave me a 2006 A6 with 900 miles on it for the day while they balanced, rotated and washed/vacuumed my 2005 A6. When I returned I was given tire pressure and tire tread wear depth devices as a "parting gift."
 
Yesterday, our Bimmer sales guy called me to apologize for having sold the BMW 530xi STICK before I could take a long long test drive -- but he offered instead to have dinner with my wife and me at a local German pub and catch up on our trip to Munich and Oktoberfest last September.
 
We've gone to Ingolstadt six times for plant tours and we've been to the BMW museum in Munich more times than I can remember and are hoping to visit, soon, the BMW delivery center that was under construction in Munich last Sept.
 
Not typical.
 
Passionate about cars? -- uh, yea.
 
We enjoy the education and pleasures of visiting these dealerships and with our long term behavior as witness, we would make up reasons to visit the dealership (and have) now that service intervals and reliability are so long and so great.
 
Maybe if we were buying Cobalt's or Neon's (or whatever they have du jour) we wouldn't do this.
 
LPS cars -- in their native habitat -- are a little bit, for us, like enjoying dinner in a fine restaurant where we know the owner and server; a little like going in for that monthly massage with our long term favorite massage therapist we affectionately call, "Stuff" as she ends every sentence with "and stuff 'ike that."
 
Don't go by us.
 
Heck, in September we're going for the two day X3 driving affair at BMW's US facility -- somebody stop us! (just kidding.)
 
None of this should be interpreted to suggest we want our cars to require more maintenance or require more visits to the dealer for unscheduled needs. No one likes it when something breaks on one of these $50,000 wunderkins, especially us.
 
We just happen to enjoy these cars, their caretakers and sellers in their native habitats.
 
Odd couple, out.

#7697 of 10338 Re: Who cares? [sfcharlie] by lexusguy

Jul 06, 2006 (8:08 am)

Replying to: sfcharlie (Jul 06, 2006 4:50 am)
Also, qualifying as a defect, IMHO, is Nissan's failure to have done anything over the years to update their (otherwise wonderful) V6 for a better horse-power/mpg ratio. I'd expect either 300+ horsepower from a 2006 engine that drinks a gallon of gas every 17-18 miles, or, conversely, I'd expect 20-21 mpg from an engine that puts out "only" 275 hp (and depends heavily, I now realize, on a transmission that runs at relatively high rpm -- and low mpg -- in every gear, of which there are only five, to create acceleration).
 
Good points. For the record though, Acura's 3.5L is no better when it comes to fuel economy. I like the VQ's burly, somewhat crude nature, but the new Lexus 3.5L is definitely a much more efficient engine.

#7698 of 10338 Re: Who cares? [markcincinnati] by breld

Jul 06, 2006 (9:19 am)

Replying to: markcincinnati (Jul 06, 2006 5:25 am)
Hey Mark - I've really enjoyed reading your posts. I'm not quite as "odd" as you , but I also look forward to taking my TSX or my wife's MDX into the Acura dealer for service. I spend the time walking around the lot, checking out the vehicles, and usually chat it up with a couple of the salespeople for awhile.
 
I've been "lurking" in this forum for quite awhile, as I'm becoming more and more obsessed with replacing my car with a larger, AWD vehicle. My preference rotates pretty regularly between the A6, 530xi, RL, GS300(350) and M35x, though my top choices right now are the BMW and Infiniti.
 
Here's a thought I wanted to share: Many say you "can't go wrong" with any of these cars, that they are all such great cars that you'll enjoy whichever you choose. I agree with that. But by the same token, I've also accepted that I'll experience some level of regret once in awhile too. If I go with the M35, I'm confident I'd see a 530, or an A6, etc. pass by on the road and think perhaps I'd rather have that other car, and vice versa. For me, accepting that simply lessens any anxiety of feeling like "you made the wrong decision." It just speaks to how great the cars are, and appreciating what they have to offer.
 
So, having said all that, I'd say most of the decision in this segment comes down to simple emotion. What gets you most excited? Right now, the M35x and 530xi are it for me. The Infiniti seems like a real smart choice - lower cost, LT reliability likely better, etc. And when you're shelling out $50k, those are decent reasons. But, practicality aside, the BMW simply appeals to me more - it feels more like "me," to put it simply.
 
And, the idea of not giving up the manual trannie certainly is appealing.
 
OK, sorry for the long post. I'm back to lurking

#7699 of 10338 Re: german [lexusguy] by calhon

Jul 06, 2006 (11:15 am)

Replying to: lexusguy (Jul 05, 2006 2:44 pm)
That's fair. The LS is an extremely reliable model. You could say the average number of problems/car is a nit.
 
So, what about some other model that's 100%(!) less reliable? Well, that's 2 nits and the difference between it and the LS is therefore ..... a nit.
 
It's an helpful perspective to have as you use the CR, or any other, reliability data. Keeps you from being overcome by fear and panic, regardless of how much emphasis you place on reliability.
 
End of sermon.

#7700 of 10338 Re: Who cares? [sfcharlie] by anthonyp

Jul 06, 2006 (3:06 pm)

Replying to: sfcharlie (Jul 06, 2006 4:50 am)
I to have had slight regret when I have made decisions where the financial side has overidden the passion side...I had Lexus product for years on end -because of the poor experiences I had with the American manufacturers and dealers..It was such a nice experience I just didn`t think of changing, and that may have been the right decisions....Lately I have had Mercedes and BMW and now Audi for myself...I personally haven`t had any more problems with these brands than the Lexus brand, and have enjoyed the change alot...I gues what I`m saying is we live and learn...Good luch with the next choice Tony

#7701 of 10338 JUNE SALES? by bartalk3

Jul 06, 2006 (6:59 pm)

Replying to: anthonyp (Jul 06, 2006 3:06 pm)
Can someone post June sales for LPS's?

#7702 of 10338 Re: JUNE SALES? [bartalk3] by merc1

Jul 06, 2006 (7:20 pm)

Replying to: bartalk3 (Jul 06, 2006 6:59 pm)
BMW 5-Series: 5,199 (+24.3%)
MB E-class: 4,213 (+0.2%)
Cadillac STS: 2,565 (-31.0%)
Lexus GS: 2,191 (-33.9%)
Infiniti M35/45:
Audi A6: 1,748 (+10.5%)
Acura RL: 980 (-37.4%)
 
M

#7703 of 10338 Re: JUNE SALES? [merc1] by bartalk3

Jul 06, 2006 (10:35 pm)

Replying to: merc1 (Jul 06, 2006 7:20 pm)
Thanks, merc1. GS sales are sinking fast, probably in anticipation of the GS350 coming soon to a dealer near you. RL sales are collapsing, even though they're being discounted as much as $9,000 off sticker, with Acura offering dealers a $3,000 incentive. 5-Series sales are phenomenal (what accounts for that?).

#7704 of 10338 Re: JUNE SALES? [merc1] -- just adding Infiniti #s by sfcharlie

Jul 07, 2006 (4:08 am)

Replying to: merc1 (Jul 06, 2006 7:20 pm)
BMW 5-Series: 5,199 (+24.3%)
MB E-class: 4,213 (+0.2%)
Cadillac STS: 2,565 (-31.0%)
Lexus GS: 2,191 (-33.9%)
Infiniti M35/45: 2,012 (-18.9%)
Audi A6: 1,748 (+10.5%)
Acura RL: 980 (-37.4%)

Messages Page 771 of 1035

To POST a message, please Sign In.

Advertisement

Browse by Category

Browse by Vehicle
   View All Vehicles

Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
View All Topics

Edmunds Community

Advertisement