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Luxury Performance Sedans

10006 messages,  Last post on Nov 26, 2009 at 6:59 AM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan


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#7632 of 10006
Re: Steering, handling, roadholding [sfcharlie] by markcincinnati
Jun 23, 2006 (7:17 pm)
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Replying to: sfcharlie (Jun 23, 2006 5:45 pm)

May I advise someone looking at these cars for the "P" factor in LPS, please test the A6 with the S-Line option. The effect is subtle, but real -- the car, despite its nose heaviness, seems to be more than a smidge more nimble, so outfitted.
 
I cannot say it will be more nimble than a rear wheel drive 5 series with the sport package --but it will impress you if you have driven the 530xi and M35X.
 
Let me put it this way, the A6 needs the sport option, at the very least it needs the uprated wheel and tire option.
 
Of course, the BMW 530xi sport package does nothing to change the suspension -- only the Audi actually offers a real sport option. And, it shows.
 
The Audi A6 quattro with S Line is perhaps one of the best kept secrets in the LPS crowd. Now, don't get me wrong, I understand and appreciate the the 5 series (when equipped with a stick shift AND the sport suspension) -- but the Audi A6 quattro SLine IS, almost literally, "on rails" and thus is unmatched especially once there is anything other than totally dry tarmac beneath your feet.
 
Of course if you live where the roads are never anything but dry and straight, you can settle for one of the lesser LPS cars.
 
Like the M35X which, at least, comes close.
 
Of course if you opt for the 530xi with the 18" wheels AND the stick shift, well -- its bye bye Audi (if you asked me, which you probably didn't.)
 
Since most of "us" go shiftless, going A6 is pretty much a no brainer, especially NOW -- "for the money."
 
I'm planning on driving a 530 xi stick shift soon (a long long test drive) -- I hope it doesn't make the next 20 months a drag.
 
Wouldn't have one without the stick as long as the A6 w/Sline is on the market.
 
Wouldn't get any one of these BUT the stick 5, if I could make the decision TODAY, though.
#7633 of 10006
Re: Steering, handling, roadholding [markcincinnati] by pearl
Jun 23, 2006 (7:26 pm)
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Replying to: markcincinnati (Jun 23, 2006 7:17 pm)

Mark, I drove an A6 last weekend and also an RL, M35x, and GS. While all are excellent values and no one would go wrong buying any of them in my opinion, the one negative they all have in common is Road Noise! Drive an E350, 530 or GS and the difference is amazing! Speaking of which, I find it incredible that people spend thousands of dollars on stereo systems only to have them compete with road/tire noise. Frankly, this is a big deal to me, and I will not buy a car where road/wind/ambient noise seriously competes with my stereo. It is possible to buy quietness, handling and acceleration in one package.
#7634 of 10006
Re: Steering, handling, roadholding [sfcharlie] by rich545
Jun 23, 2006 (7:28 pm)
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Replying to: sfcharlie (Jun 23, 2006 5:45 pm)

Doesn't surprise me at all. I love my wife's A6, but the steering is much more disconnected than it was in my 545i eventhough the 5 had active steering. The steering in the A6 is loose which makes it feel like it doesn't handle as well as the 5 eventhough it probably is pretty close. I haven't driven an S Line, but I'd guess that would be better. It's funny that we're talking about this because just 2 days ago I was driving my wife's car and thinking that the steering felt way loose.
#7635 of 10006
Re: Steering, handling, roadholding [rich545] by sfcharlie
Jun 23, 2006 (8:22 pm)
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Replying to: rich545 (Jun 23, 2006 7:28 pm)

Well, this is fascinating (as such discussions are for those of us who are enthusiastic enough about cars to talk about them at length). Coming to test drives of 530, A6, E350, and M35 -- straight from two years in a 325i -- I was convinced that the A6 S-Line felt closer to the BMW 3-series than even the 530. Chalk it up to (a) variability between individual units of same model car; and/or (2) sub-cortical dysfunction in me; and/or (3) wide variation in goodness-of-fit between each driver-body and each vehicle-dynamics.
#7636 of 10006
BMW 535d vs. 545i by lexusguy
Jun 24, 2006 (2:07 am)
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This is a great video, especially for the diesel heads. Top Gear tests the 535d, and then races it against a 545i.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__HpspsvRVg&search=Top%20Gear%20BMW
#7637 of 10006
Re: Steering, handling, roadholding [sfcharlie] by hpowders
Jun 24, 2006 (4:29 am)
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Replying to: sfcharlie (Jun 23, 2006 5:45 pm)

I have driven the M45, GS 430 and 545(which I have) and I agree: the GS is lowest in handling, worst in steering feel- with the 545, the best in both and the M45 definitely behind the BMW, but not too far.
I would say the M45 has better brakes than the 545, however.
 
I found it interesting or should I say inept to test a BMW wagon against an M45 Sport sedan for handling and the BMW almost won anyway!
#7638 of 10006
Strategic Vision Owner Survey June 19, 2006 by sfcharlie
Jun 24, 2006 (5:03 am)
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TOTAl QUALITY INDEX
 
The Total Quality Index score is calculated using multivariate statistical techniques that measure the correlations of all aspects of the vehicle ownership experience including product, reliability and dealership (independent variables) against multiple outcome measures (dependent variables) which include the following:
-Satisfaction with the complete ownership experience
-Perception of quality
-Owner reported delight
-Future purchase intent
-Emotional attachment to vehicle
 
The correlations derived from this complex procedure are transformed into a 1000 point scale to facilitate comparisons. The scores typically range from 750 to 900. Generally, scores over 800 are terrific, although in some segments a score in the low 800's is not very competitive.
 
Infiniti M35/M45 - 908
BMW 5-series - 904
Audi A6 - 893
#7639 of 10006
Noise by sfcharlie
Jun 24, 2006 (5:10 am)
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Replying to: pearl (Jun 23, 2006 7:26 pm)

pearl wrote "I drove an A6 last weekend and also an RL, M35x, and GS. While all are excellent values and no one would go wrong buying any of them in my opinion, the one negative they all have in common is Road Noise! Drive an E350, 530 or GS and the difference is amazing!"
 
Which ones put most and least noise into cabin?
 
CR had Audi and Merceedes excellent on noise. M35, good on noise rating.
 
Anyone know if any of the published comparison tests measure decibels in cabin while test-driving?
#7640 of 10006
Re: Steering, handling, roadholding [markcincinnati] by sfcharlie
Jun 24, 2006 (5:39 am)
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Replying to: markcincinnati (Jun 23, 2006 7:17 pm)

The Audi A6 quattro with S Line is perhaps one of the best kept secrets in the LPS crowd. Now, don't get me wrong, I understand and appreciate the the 5 series (when equipped with a stick shift AND the sport suspension) -- but the Audi A6 quattro SLine IS, almost literally, "on rails" and thus is unmatched especially once there is anything other than totally dry tarmac beneath your feet.
 
Mark ... having just finished two months of test-driving most of the cars covered in this forum (lexus, audi, mb, infiniti), I couldn't agree more. If I could llive several parallel lives and had to predict which, of the cars I drove, would create, for the most consecutive days, an extra ounce of energizing excitement when I was on my way out to drive it in the morning, it would definitely be the A6 S-line I drove. I can't actually give a totally convincing explanation to myself as to why, in the end, I chose the M35, fear some days it was getting caught up in excitement of new model and what Nissan appears to be trying to do (I can root for car companies, as if they were sports teams), and half-unconscious swaying by expectation that Japanese car would not trouble me (I hate hearing myself put it that way) despite two friends (who have owned a combined total of 5 Audi A6s over last decdae) repeating that none of the cars, especially the two 2005s have been back to dealer for no more than a couple minor fixes each.
#7641 of 10006
Re: Noise [sfcharlie] by pearl
Jun 24, 2006 (7:47 am)
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Replying to: sfcharlie (Jun 24, 2006 5:10 am)

obviously, I did not have a dB meter with me, so my assessment is subjective (how loud did it seem?). From most road noise to least, they were RL (Hondas all seem to have this problem), M35X, A6 and GS. The GS was by far the quietest, but to me, was the least "fun" to drive. OEM tire selection clearly is an issue here too, but so is suspension tuning, bushings, etc. Again, all seemed to be excellent cars, but I think it is too bad that some manufacturers seem to make so little effort to deal with interior noise. Cranking up the radio volume to overcome the racket from the tires is unfortunate.

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