Last post on Nov 25, 2013 at 11:27 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan
#7278 of 10348 Re: sales comparison with 5 and E [shipo]
May 04, 2006 (8:25 am)
"70% of Audis, BMW's and Mercedes LPS offerings are sold in diesel form in Europe."
I am certain the numbers are NOT dead on identical for these three brands, but the gist of what I have been reading is that for all practical purposes, the diesel versions of these three LPS cars (in Europe) outsell the gas versions (70% to 30%.)
Unless there IS a huge disparity, I would assume this is not THAT significant.
Note: In Europe the 3.0TDI Audi A6 is ~900 Euros less than its "lower performing" (slightly) and much thirstier 3.2 gasoline version sibling.
"You mean, I could buy an A6 TDI that will out accelerate, go farther on a gallon of diesel (that generally cost less than a gallon of premium gasoline), last longer (by about 100,000 miles), output 30 - 60% less greenhouse emissions and go for about a $1,000 less?"
"Technically yes, but you can't buy one here in the US."
"Hmm, technically because we will not offer widespread availability of CLEAN DIESEL fuel until 3rd or 4th quarter 2006."
"Who's bright idea was that to NOT mandate such fuel sooner?"
"You figure it out, I have to go to place a wreath on the tomb of the unregistered voter."
"Oh I get it."
"No, no you don't -- you don't even get a clue."
"Now you're being insulting."
"No, its just that there is no such thing as common sense, and the perpetuation of the myth that there is, keeps holding us back, costing us money and depriving us."
"Get off your soapbox you oaf."
"Sticks and stones."
"Seriously, what would happen if our LPS cars, just as a starting point were suddenly available in diesel format."
"Truthfully, no one knows -- but what could happen according to the EPA (2/2006), '. . .the US could save the amount imported from Saudi Arabia if one-thrid of US vehicles ran on diesel. . .' so to the extent that LPS cars are only a fraction of the total, perhaps the impact would be diminimus."
"What are you a lawyer."
"No, but I do play one on TV."
"Now who's the oaf?"
"All the stuff that we now enjoy in our econo boxes, stuff like power steering, brakes, windows and air conditioning were first offered in Lux cars -- then trickled down to the rest. Were all LPS cars to come out with diesel with the performance improvements, fuel economy improvements and slightly lower prices that we have seen elsewhere, well it stands to reason that the near-LPS cars, and so on down the food chain, would soon be offered with diesel and we theoretically could accelerate [no pun intended] away from our dependance on middle eastern oil."
"Dream on big boy."
"Speaking of Big Boy's -- how about lunch?"
#7279 of 10348 Re: sales comparison with 5 and E [markcincinnati]
May 04, 2006 (9:20 am)
"How does the Infiniti M35 and M45 stack up when total sales worldwide are factored in? Ditto Acura's RL, Audi's A6, Lexus GS, and so on (heck include the STS for fun, too.)"
Thats somewhat hard to determine. If you count only Infiniti, Acura, and Lexus versions, their global sales outlook is pretty poor. If you factor in Nissan Fuga, Honda Legend, and Toyota Aristo sales though, then it might be more balanced. I'm not sure.
Edit: Actually, I think the Aristo is no more, and the car is badged as the Lexus GS in all markets.
#7280 of 10348 Re: April 2006 Sales – Midsize Luxury Sedans [2001gs430]
May 04, 2006 (9:35 am)
I think the GS sales will regain third place if Lexus can make and deliver all 2000 GS450h by December.
1. Hybrid sales (Prius, Accord & Civic hybrids) are way down recently. No sure why luxury buyers are more concerned about gas price than economy buyers.
2. GS and competitors sales are driven mostly by sales of V6 versions, so why would GS460h do much for sales?
GS is just doing the typical Lexus nose dive for sporty sedans. IS will do the same!
Lexus, Infiniti and Acura are only in a few markets, so can't do a worldwide sales comparison. Infiniti and Acura are not even in their homemarket of Japan yet. Infiniti is doing the smart thing though, expanding in the exploding developping economies of India, China, Korea and Russia first, before the well established markets of Europe and Japan. In the developing countries, there's much more growth potential and Infiniti and Lexus can compete with MB and BMW in more even terms.
#7281 of 10348 Awesome !! - I'm LMAO!
May 04, 2006 (9:47 am)
#7282 of 10348 Re: Awesome !! - I'm LMAO! [moxie]
May 04, 2006 (10:20 am)
ya know, I can hear that conversation...
May 04, 2006 (10:28 am)
want to buy new mb e320 cdi but am wondering if electrical problems are enough to buy something else. am diesel fan but do not want predictable headaches.
#7284 of 10348 We've looked at the E CDI
May 04, 2006 (10:32 am)
but just didn't feel like the car was what we wanted. Kinda along the Lexus lines, just didn't do it for us. The other German offerings felt better to us.
I sure hope Audi A6 TDI and BMW 530 TDI happen. Would be sweet!
#7285 of 10348 Re: We've looked at the E CDI [erickpl]
May 04, 2006 (11:49 am)
Audi for one (and so has Mercedes, I believe) confirmed more and more better diesels for the NA market starting with the Q7 and A6 from Audi and just expanding to beat the band from Mercedes.
This is a good thing!
May 04, 2006 (1:46 pm)
GS and competitors sales are driven mostly by sales of V6 versions, so why would GS460h do much for sales?
I will bet that Lexus will sells every single GS450h they could bring to NA this year. Also, its MSRP is the same as a loaded 530i's. I don't know whether the latter is selling at much lower price than MSRP and the former is not. The one apparent draw back for the GS450h is the trunk space. Furthermore, the GS450h may take away some regular GS sales.
#7287 of 10348 Re: sales comparison with 5 and E [lexusguy]
May 04, 2006 (6:58 pm)
Please dont misunderstand, I am a great admirer of Lexus and I am on your side.
Incidently I am one of those rare species who love both benz and lexus. And I defend and attack both of them. If you dont believe it read my earlier posts in various threads.
I am not talking about combined 5&E sales I am talking about year to year sales of M,GS and RL compared to 5&E .
I think M and GS sales are way behind, not even half of what the german brands are selling.
5: 55,000 approx every year
GS: 10-15,000 every year (pathetic)
M: 20,000 (last year only), before that it was a joke.
The solution: GS needs more pizzaz and performance and sexy sheet metal, something akin to what they have done with IS and the upcoming LS 460 and 600h L.
For M: They need a new fresh V8 to boost the sales and make the car look less bulky, fat in exterior design. It should look more sleek like E-class or aston martin.
The headlights and front facia are too gross and although its a huge improvement over the previous M, more work needs to be done.
I saw the interior in NY auto show and it was great!