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Luxury Performance Sedans

10339 messages,  Last post on May 30, 2013 at 3:26 PM

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What is this discussion about? Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan

Messages Page 729 of 1035

#7272 of 10339 Re: April 2006 Sales – Midsize Luxury Sedans [spiritinthesky] by merc1

May 04, 2006 (5:24 am)

Replying to: spiritinthesky (May 04, 2006 5:22 am)
Interesting take on it. Well I do think they compete with BMW/M and Porsche, but not directly if that makes sense. They can't be competing directly without manuals and even sportier setups, but these AMG cars aren't slouches either, just a more relaxed take on performance, a super GT if you will. I've always thought of a Mercedes as a heavy grand touring car relative to BMWs and especially Porsches. I don't know why they would give you a S55 if you're an M5 driver, that car is way to big and slanted towards luxury to compare to the M5. There is news that Mercedes may be offering sportier setups on certain AMG models, tenatively called "Track Sport" editions, but still no manuals for guys like you and habitat.
 
I don't blame you for taking them up on their offers I know I would!!
 
Yes I remember the 300E (W124), first Benz I ever drove. It was also the car that got me to liking Mercedes-Benz, especially the 500E version. That car is probably still my favorite Benz of all time. I remember a commercial for the 300E from back then in which the manual version topped out at 140 mph and the auto 137 mph. There was even a manual tranny SL320 in the early nineties they imported a whole 100 of them...lol!
 
M

#7273 of 10339 Re: April 2006 Sales – Midsize Luxury Sedans [merc1] by hpowders

May 04, 2006 (6:11 am)

Replying to: merc1 (May 03, 2006 11:13 pm)
It's what I do!

#7274 of 10339 Re: April 2006 Sales – Midsize Luxury Sedans [jrock65] by 2001gs430

May 04, 2006 (7:10 am)

Replying to: jrock65 (May 02, 2006 10:26 am)
April 2006 Sales – Midsize Luxury Sedans:
  
E = 3,778
5 = 3,699
M = 2,417
GS = 2,336
STS =
A6 = 1,555
RL = 1,031
 
I think the GS sales will regain third place if Lexus can make and deliver all 2000 GS450h by December.
 

#7275 of 10339 Re: Lexus GS, hideous styling and sloppy performance [stevekilburn] by 2001gs430

May 04, 2006 (7:15 am)

Replying to: stevekilburn (May 03, 2006 3:19 pm)

1. The headlights on GS are like somebody plucked out their eyeballs and running for help here and there. The serial killer headlights on 5 are at least intimidating.
 
I agree the head and tail lights can use some improvement. Some thing along the line of the LS460 would be nice.

#7276 of 10339 Re: sales comparison with 5 and E [lexusguy] by markcincinnati

May 04, 2006 (7:54 am)

Replying to: lexusguy (May 04, 2006 4:22 am)
Considering how long the 5 and E have been dominating the LPS segment. . .
 
This is accurate if you so stipulate that you are limiting your LPS ADI (area of dominant influence) to the United States (or the US + Canada.)
 
What might be useful ("might be") would be to note the sales of the LPS crowd globally.
 
How does the Infiniti M35 and M45 stack up when total sales worldwide are factored in? Ditto Acura's RL, Audi's A6, Lexus GS, and so on (heck include the STS for fun, too.)
 
I read this, recently:
 
"In Europe, the German luxury marque Audi is now on a par with rivals like Mercedes-Benz and BMW. Yet in the States, Audi is a mere also-ran, selling barely a third as many cars as the luxury segment's leaders."
 
Apparently (from the rest of this article and from other blogs), Audis cost more than their rivals in Europe yet sell on par with BMW and Mercedes.
 
Is it possible to acquire an M or a GS "readily" in Europe? One would imagine that in the UK these Japanese built cars would be offered since both the Japanese and UK drivers require right hand drive cars. . . .
 
Anyway, my point is to note that the 5 and E may only dominate (sales-wise) in the US, which is hugely important, but perhaps not as important as Europe and South America or Asia or maybe even the Middle East and India as these areas (most likely the latter ones noted in the list) will be where the most significant growth will (and is already) come from.
 
It is important that the 5 and E are dominant (in the US), of that there is little or no doubt. It is not a complete picture, however.
 
Does the 5, to pick one, "dominate" the world over?
 
Its a small world, after all, as the song goes. . .

#7277 of 10339 Re: sales comparison with 5 and E [markcincinnati] by shipo

May 04, 2006 (8:46 am)

Replying to: markcincinnati (May 04, 2006 7:54 am)
"Apparently (from the rest of this article and from other blogs), Audis cost more than their rivals in Europe yet sell on par with BMW and Mercedes."
 
No problem believing that. I wonder... How much of the disparity in Audi sales between North America and Europe has to do with the fact that their excellent Diesel technology is only available over there?
 
Best Regards,
Shipo

#7278 of 10339 Re: sales comparison with 5 and E [shipo] by markcincinnati

May 04, 2006 (9:25 am)

Replying to: shipo (May 04, 2006 8:46 am)
"70% of Audis, BMW's and Mercedes LPS offerings are sold in diesel form in Europe."
 
I am certain the numbers are NOT dead on identical for these three brands, but the gist of what I have been reading is that for all practical purposes, the diesel versions of these three LPS cars (in Europe) outsell the gas versions (70% to 30%.)
 
Unless there IS a huge disparity, I would assume this is not THAT significant.
 
Note: In Europe the 3.0TDI Audi A6 is ~900 Euros less than its "lower performing" (slightly) and much thirstier 3.2 gasoline version sibling.
 
"You mean, I could buy an A6 TDI that will out accelerate, go farther on a gallon of diesel (that generally cost less than a gallon of premium gasoline), last longer (by about 100,000 miles), output 30 - 60% less greenhouse emissions and go for about a $1,000 less?"
 
"Technically yes, but you can't buy one here in the US."
 
"Why not?"
 
"Hmm, technically because we will not offer widespread availability of CLEAN DIESEL fuel until 3rd or 4th quarter 2006."
 
"Who's bright idea was that to NOT mandate such fuel sooner?"
 
"Not mine."
 
"Who, really?"
 
"You figure it out, I have to go to place a wreath on the tomb of the unregistered voter."
 
"Oh I get it."
 
"No, no you don't -- you don't even get a clue."
 
"Now you're being insulting."
 
"No, its just that there is no such thing as common sense, and the perpetuation of the myth that there is, keeps holding us back, costing us money and depriving us."
 
"Get off your soapbox you oaf."
 
"Sticks and stones."
 
"Seriously, what would happen if our LPS cars, just as a starting point were suddenly available in diesel format."
 
"Truthfully, no one knows -- but what could happen according to the EPA (2/2006), '. . .the US could save the amount imported from Saudi Arabia if one-thrid of US vehicles ran on diesel. . .' so to the extent that LPS cars are only a fraction of the total, perhaps the impact would be diminimus."
 
"What are you a lawyer."
 
"No, but I do play one on TV."
 
"Seriously."
 
"Now who's the oaf?"
 
"Touche."
 
"All the stuff that we now enjoy in our econo boxes, stuff like power steering, brakes, windows and air conditioning were first offered in Lux cars -- then trickled down to the rest. Were all LPS cars to come out with diesel with the performance improvements, fuel economy improvements and slightly lower prices that we have seen elsewhere, well it stands to reason that the near-LPS cars, and so on down the food chain, would soon be offered with diesel and we theoretically could accelerate [no pun intended] away from our dependance on middle eastern oil."
 
"Dream on big boy."
 
"Speaking of Big Boy's -- how about lunch?"
 
"You're on."
 
"Moron."
 
"Bedwetter."
 
"Friends?"
 
"Of course."
 
 

#7279 of 10339 Re: sales comparison with 5 and E [markcincinnati] by lexusguy

May 04, 2006 (10:20 am)

Replying to: markcincinnati (May 04, 2006 7:54 am)
"How does the Infiniti M35 and M45 stack up when total sales worldwide are factored in? Ditto Acura's RL, Audi's A6, Lexus GS, and so on (heck include the STS for fun, too.)"
 
Thats somewhat hard to determine. If you count only Infiniti, Acura, and Lexus versions, their global sales outlook is pretty poor. If you factor in Nissan Fuga, Honda Legend, and Toyota Aristo sales though, then it might be more balanced. I'm not sure.
 
Edit: Actually, I think the Aristo is no more, and the car is badged as the Lexus GS in all markets.

#7280 of 10339 Re: April 2006 Sales – Midsize Luxury Sedans [2001gs430] by mariner7

May 04, 2006 (10:35 am)

Replying to: 2001gs430 (May 04, 2006 7:10 am)
I think the GS sales will regain third place if Lexus can make and deliver all 2000 GS450h by December.
 
1. Hybrid sales (Prius, Accord & Civic hybrids) are way down recently. No sure why luxury buyers are more concerned about gas price than economy buyers.
 
2. GS and competitors sales are driven mostly by sales of V6 versions, so why would GS460h do much for sales?
 
GS is just doing the typical Lexus nose dive for sporty sedans. IS will do the same!
 
Lexus, Infiniti and Acura are only in a few markets, so can't do a worldwide sales comparison. Infiniti and Acura are not even in their homemarket of Japan yet. Infiniti is doing the smart thing though, expanding in the exploding developping economies of India, China, Korea and Russia first, before the well established markets of Europe and Japan. In the developing countries, there's much more growth potential and Infiniti and Lexus can compete with MB and BMW in more even terms.

#7281 of 10339 Awesome !! - I'm LMAO! by moxie

May 04, 2006 (10:47 am)

Replying to: markcincinnati (May 04, 2006 9:25 am)

Messages Page 729 of 1035

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