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Luxury Performance Sedans

10338 messages,  Last post on May 01, 2013 at 3:12 PM

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What is this discussion about? Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan

Messages Page 703 of 1035

#7014 of 10338 Re: Leader in AWD [liferules] by markcincinnati

Mar 26, 2006 (10:00 am)

Replying to: liferules (Mar 25, 2006 1:08 pm)
In the US, BMW's 5 outsells Audi's A6 by about 3 to 1.
 
Ohio's largest BMW dealer which may not translate nationally, claims 40% of the 5's sold are X-drive models and now some 15% of the 3's (and growing) are likewise.
 
In the past year, it was almost not even possible to buy an A6 in the US that was 2WD. All of the A6's (virtually all) were AWD in the US. BMW's 5x cars could not be had until the second half of the year 2005.
 
What may be some data points (pertaining to US sales) worth knowing (and where can we find them?) are US X drive sales of 5 series as a percentage of a known quantity.
 
For if it is accurate that 98% of A6's are AWD and 40% of 5's are AWD and that the 5's outsell the A6's by 3 to 1. . .
 
100 Audis = 98 AWD (if my assumption of 98% AWD is correct)
then during the same time period, 300 BMWs would be sold and 120 of them would be AWD (if my dealer's assertions of HIS sales can be extrapolated to ALL dealer's sales.)
 
But if all these numbers are indeed reflective of what is typically going on in the US, it would mean more BMW's are sold w/AWD but that a much higher percentage of Audi's sold are AWD.
 
The trend that this suggests if it is accurate is a very rapid increase in the demand for AWD cars, especially AWD LPS cars.
 
Now additional credence can be lent to this notion if the Infiniti and Acura dealer's assertions (locally) translate.
 
Of course 100% of all RL's were SH-AWD but the "majority" of the M's sold were the M35X.
 
This information comes from my Audi dealer who also owns Cincinnati's ONE Infiniti store and one of the several Acura stores in our fair city.
 
Rarely do I see a Cadillac STS that is NOT AWD and ditto the Mercedes E (they seem overwhelmingly to be 4Matics here in River City.)
 
We have mild winters with little snowfall here in SW Ohio, so this rush to AWD is certainly not because we are in the snow belt (one has to go north of Columbus Ohio for much snowfall.)
 
Somewhere, there are statistics, perhaps they are closely guarded secrets. However, one would imagine that if the trend cited by my BMW dealer (40% of 5's are AWD and that those figures are inventory constrained) is indeed even remotely similar to the experiences elsewhere in the US, that BMW would want to publish such information so that the dealers could order what it is demand.
 
Ditto: Audi, Cadillac, Infiniti and all the rest of the L and near L PS cars that are vying for our dollars.
 
I believe we are seeing the end of the 2WD era and the "attack" is coming from all the different classes of vehicles, not just LPS or SUV or trucks. "There's a lobster loose, cover yourselves with butter and carry lemons just in case!"
 
 

#7015 of 10338 Overextension among German Marques by dewey

Mar 26, 2006 (12:03 pm)

So now Porsche is thinking of a new SUV that will share a platform with the Audi Q5. Also they will be adding a Porsche Panemara sedan. IMO overextension of product line at Porshce may soon be detrimental to the cache and image of their superior sport cars.
 
But what about BMW? I heard rumors they may introduce a BMW X7 with 7 seats(a BMW minivan)? Or the new BMW coupe type SUV called the X6. The thought of these vehicles makes me cringe!
 
Or how about the onslaught of new Audi vehicles: Audi Q7, Q5 and a rumored Q3. Plus what about the Audi Jet concept wagon(expected in real form in a few years). IMO the Jet concept looks like it will simpily cannibalize sales from Audi's existing Avant sales.
 
Also as Merc1 pointed out it appears that the engine choices among Audi vehicles like the Q7 will be quite redundant (simulataneoulsy offering a diesel and a hyrid powertrain)
 
It appears the above German marques are following the same path as MB in terms of overextending themeselves with too many vehicles.(In MB's case the GL and R Class).
 
Contrary to flooding the market with every type of vehicle with every type of engine possible, I think the German marques above should focus on a few models that reflects their core compentence.
 
  
 
link title
 

#7016 of 10338 And may I add the following.... by dewey

Mar 26, 2006 (12:38 pm)

In addition I heard rumors that Porsche may re-introduce the 914 that will be based on a VW platform. Talk about brand name hari kari!

#7017 of 10338 Infiniti's view of the world by dewey

Mar 27, 2006 (10:15 am)

An Infiniti Marketing Director's view on the competition:
 
BMW stands for performance, the 'ultimate driving machine,'" Fessenden says. "Lexus owns quality and reliability and underscores that with their tag line, 'the passionate pursuit of perfection.' Mercedes stood for the pinnacle of engineering. So with design, we're at a very honest place for us to live."
 
1)MB whose only glory is defined by its engineering past
 
2)Infiniti as a design leader
 
Is this fellow from Infinti serious
 
link title

#7018 of 10338 Re: Infiniti's view of the world [dewey] by moxie

Mar 27, 2006 (11:22 am)

Replying to: dewey (Mar 27, 2006 10:15 am)
He may be hallucinating !

#7019 of 10338 Hmmm, the C&D and Automobile types. . . by markcincinnati

Mar 27, 2006 (12:41 pm)

. . .often cite Audi as the design leader.
 
And, frankly, whenever I read that stuff, I believe the writer means it positively. But, as an Audi maven, I read it as Audi = Style over Substance.
 
Now, the Infiniti guy wants to be seen as the Design Company, it wants to market itself ("more" heavily) to the Black consumer and according to the New York Times, Mercury has decided to stick its toe into a risky area, Mercury = the Woman's car.
 
I think you really risk marketing your car to a gender or ethnic or racial (and while we're at it religious) market.
 
Who's to say that such and such a car is for WASP's, African Americans, Women (of all races and creeds) and so on.
 
Wow.
 
Now, perhaps certain cars seem to "overwhelmingly" attract certain classes -- but I thought those days ended with the 1957 attempt by DeSoto or Dodge to market a feminine car?
 
No wait, my wife's boss -- a late 50's gentleman -- had a pink Nissan Pulsar.
 
I stand corrected.
 
Infiniti can be the "design" car if it thinks that is a good thing. And, it can target market till the cows come home.
 
Wow.

#7020 of 10338 Re: Infiniti's view of the world [dewey] by lexusguy

Mar 27, 2006 (12:46 pm)

Replying to: dewey (Mar 27, 2006 10:15 am)
Yeah that was a little strange. I think mostly what it means is Infiniti is still searching for a tagline to use. They cant use "ultimate driving machine" "engineered like no other car in the world", or "the passionate persuit of perfection." Those taglines scream BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus. Infiniti doesnt have anything like that. I dont think going after "design" is really the right idea, not unless Pinninfarina starts doing Infiniti designs.

#7021 of 10338 Re: Infiniti's view of the world [lexusguy] by docnukem

Mar 27, 2006 (1:34 pm)

Replying to: lexusguy (Mar 27, 2006 12:46 pm)
Infiniti: "Engineering the perfect driving machine."
 
or, "Designing the perfectly engineered driving machine."
 
 
or this, "The passionate engineering of ultimate design."
 
The last one sounds almost Zen-like...kinda gets Infiniti back to its roots.

#7022 of 10338 Re: Infiniti's view of the world [docnukem] by shipo

Mar 27, 2006 (1:45 pm)

Replying to: docnukem (Mar 27, 2006 1:34 pm)
or this, "The passionate engineering of ultimate design."
  
The last one sounds almost Zen-like...kinda gets Infiniti back to its roots.
 
I think you're on to something. How about:
 
"Infiniti, Zen and the art of Design."
 
Best Regards,
Shipo

#7023 of 10338 Re: Infiniti's view of the world [shipo] by dewey

Mar 27, 2006 (2:24 pm)

Replying to: shipo (Mar 27, 2006 1:45 pm)
"Infiniti, Zen and the art of Design."
 
If Infiniti buyers or potential buyers are able to hear the sound of one hand clapping then I think Infiniti advertisements should show pictures of rocks, grass and water falls. Forget the car and the Infiniti logo altogether.

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