Last post on Nov 25, 2013 at 11:27 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan
#6149 of 10348 Re: They Ain't Gonna Sell [gohorns1]
Feb 09, 2006 (5:23 am)
The 5 Series, in E39 form, was known for its incredible reliability. I'd venture that the 3 AND 5 Series are not only BMW's biggest sellers, but their most reliable models. When the E60 came out, it had a lot of new technology, albeit some of it from the 7 Series. Those issues were reflected in their quality scores.
But those technologies have improved to the point where they are putting it in their 6's and 3's now, so they must be confident that the major issues have been dealt with. I know people who have had BMW's since the 1980's and have been to the dealer for only scheduled maintenance and an occasional issue. My 2002 BMW did not have one issue outside of the warranty period. All its little nits were during warranty (cluster controller failure right after purchasing, window regulators, and a cracked windshield due to Mojave desert heat and sun).
I would not hesitate to buy another BMW. I would not hesitate to buy an Audi either. Audi's suspension and mechanics are as reliable as BMW's, which I feel are very solid.
The biggest issues I think that face LPS owners is all the high tech extras, MMI, iDrive, Nav, Automatic xxx.
I am glad you really enjoy your Camry. You talk about friends who give bad anecdotal evidence about BMW and Audi. I've heard the bad anecdotal stories about Toyota/Lexus and even was witness to a transmission basically failing on a test drive (on a Camry no less). Based on that, I give Toyota/Lexus very close scrutiny when looking at their new offerings, just as I'm sure you look at BMW and Audi with a close, skeptical eye.
Having driven some Lexus's on a test drive and having driven BMW's and Audi's as well, I can say that the Lexus does indeed drive nicely and something to be considered in this segment. However, my driving orientation is towards feeling the road, seeing what the car can do. Based on what I've seen, felt, and read, nobody does it at this point in time like the German makers.
As Mark said, pretty much any car, short of my Jeep Wrangler, can be an expensive proposition to keep when outside of warranty. My 2002 was a pleasant experience in that my out of warranty costs for repairs was - $0.00. I can only hope that my future purchases are similarly priced for non-warranty expenses.
#6150 of 10348 Re: Future Audi A4 [esf]
Feb 09, 2006 (6:00 am)
Unless you mean that Canada is lucky to get a torquey diesel Avant. Audi is considering selling its diesel lineup here.
Buying a new Audi turbodiesel on both sides of our border sounds fine to me, although California may be another story.
#6151 of 10348 Re: They Ain't Gonna Sell [erickpl]
Feb 09, 2006 (6:06 am)
I feel the need to clarify, why I'm not sure, but I have been driving a Lexus ES300. I call it an expensive Camry, because it is a Camry in Lexus clothes. At the time I bought it, it was the right choice. I was not ready to enter LPS territory, but I wanted more than a Toyota. I have not been dissapointed by my choice.
Paul, thanks for your comments. I realize that these cars have good warranties and most problems will be covered. My concern is having to make repeated trips even to deal with warranty issues. Of course, that is just part of having a car. I agree with you that the GS is not what I am looking for as it has too little of the "s" in the LPS.
#6152 of 10348 Re: They Ain't Gonna Sell [gohorns1]
Feb 09, 2006 (7:19 am)
Luxury Performance Sedan -- LPS.
The GS has too little "sedan?"
The reviews seem to credit the GS cars with lots of Luxury, OK Performance and, well, it IS, after all, a sedan.
#6153 of 10348 Re: They Ain't Gonna Sell [gohorns1]
Feb 09, 2006 (7:47 am)
I honestly don't think that the E60 had that many problems considering it was a complete redesign. Most complete redesigns run into some problems that take a couple of years to work out. Mine has thankfully been trouble free (it's a 2004). I'd be willing to guess (though I don't know for sure) that the E39 had some problems in it's first couple of years too. Of the German LPS' I would say that MB is really the one dealing with quality issues right now; not BMW or Audi.
#6154 of 10348 Re: They Ain't Gonna Sell [rich545]
Feb 09, 2006 (7:56 am)
After 3 months my 2006 A6 3.2 continues to operate flawlessly, aside from a barely perceptible rattle that seems to appear only at below freezing temps, and then goes away when the car warms up. Of course, my 01 530i with 33K miles was extremely reliable until 3 months ago when I experienced cracked coil wires ($600), followed by the failure of the brake power booster and damage to the master cylinder (only 4 months out of warranty). Based on this $2K lesson, I will not be out of warranty with these wonderful, but "breathtakingly expensive" to repair vehicles again.
#6155 of 10348 Re: They Ain't Gonna Sell [rich545] -- hear hear!
Feb 09, 2006 (7:57 am)
Indeed, Audi and BMW (not to slight Acura, Infiniti or Lexus, by any means) seem to be on a tear:
o awards out the wazoo,
o improving sales (record sales, in fact),
o a great pipeline of products current and near term,
o a decent if not stellar global economy and
o lots of warm fuzzies from the pundits (and us amateurs.)
Not much love here on the LPS forum about the STS's -- perhaps it is the "sale of the century" or something, but here in Cincinnapolis, there has been a proliferation of sightings of STS's -- and, frankly MOST of them have been the AWD flavors (as you might guess, I notice the little indication on the right rear decklid.)
My company's newest sales rep picked up her new 2006 CTS last Friday with ZERO upfront, 36 month 54,000 mile lease for $515 -- it has two options on it making the price about $40K -- seems like a very nice car (and yes I said CTS, even though my earlier comment pertained to the LPS STS.)
Just wondering if the STS owners lurk here or don't even participate.
As a commentary, it would seem that Cadillac would want all the representation here on edmunds it could get, for it would seems that being represented here on the LPS forum would be indicative of a "good buzz."
#6156 of 10348 Re: Whew.. [tayl0rd]
Feb 09, 2006 (10:05 am)
Do you notice how many posts occur during business hours and very few on the weekends?
Unless most posters are retirees, there is a lot of company time spent.......
#6157 of 10348 Re: They Ain't Gonna Sell [erickpl]
Feb 09, 2006 (10:14 am)
All together since 1993- experiencing continuous BMW leaseship, I have had 12 years, 7 months of completely trouble-free leaseship. ( 2 325i's and now a 545)
And the returning experience has been completely tension and hassle free. And I do not believe my experience is the exception to the rule. I'm not that lucky!
I do believe anyone out there who is afraid of BMW need worry any more, IMO.
#6158 of 10348 Re: Whew.. [hpowders]
Feb 09, 2006 (10:16 am)
heck, i have much better things to do at home than post on message boards.