Last post on Nov 25, 2013 at 11:27 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan
#5867 of 10348 Re: LPS cars, LPS houses, LPS lives. . . [calidave]
Jan 12, 2006 (9:10 am)
You're probably right, Dave. This is shaping up as the Year of the Major Appliance.
I also hope that at some point in 2006 my lovely wife will settle on a replacement for her '99 Lexus ES 300.
Over 6 months ago, at the beginning of last summer, I suggested that she test drive the Japanese Big Three: the Acura RL, the Infiniti M & the Lexus GS. I was certain that she'd come home with the GS.
Several weeks later, she announced that she had narrowed the field to 2 candidates: the Lexus ES 330 & the Mercedes E350.
I know what you're thinking & what someone will probably say: these cars are in altogether different categories & happen to be some $20K apart in price. No one who knows anything about cars would cross-shop these 2. And you wouldn't be wrong to say this. That would certainly be my response.
But my wife isn't a car nut & doesn't think along these lines. It doesn't matter to her that 1 of these cars is a sub-$35K front-driver that some would describe as a dressed-up Camry while the other is a north of $50K (well north when you add the stuff that most of us want in our cars) rear-driver. All she knew was that these were the 2 cars that she found most appealing. She liked both the way they looked & the way they drove. For a bunch of reasons, she didn't like any of the original Big Three enough to go back for a 2nd test drive.
(FWIW, if I had been permitted to make this decision, I would have picked the Infiniti M. But my wife hated it. It seems to me that the Infiniti M, more than the others discussed here, is a guy's car. Women's reactions to it range from indifference to outright dislike. Has anyone else noticed this? Any ideas why?)
Finally, after listening to her hem & haw ("I really like the Mercedes, but I'm not sure that I like it $20,000 more than I like the Lexus"), I suggested that she wait until the spring of '06, when Lexus will roll out the next-generation 2007 ES 350, which, it has been speculated, will feature a 6-speed transmission. (This is one of the benefits of owning, as opposed to leasing, a car. You can always put off these decisions until next year.)
I've also heard that the E-class is up for a mild exterior refresh & that these '07' cars will hit the showrooms sometime in the 2nd quarter.
#5868 of 10348 Re: LPS cars, LPS houses, LPS lives. . . [jimbres]
Jan 12, 2006 (11:56 am)
It seems that our wives have a lot in common. My wife has a '98 ES300 that she has loved from day one.
She recently drove the new GS300, but said that it didn't feel or drive any different from her ES300. Really liked the LS430, but felt that the styling was looking a bit dated. The Mark Levinson sound system in both was a BIG disappointment, compared to the Nakamichi system in her ES300.
She really likes the styling of the E-series MB, but the reliability issues are a deal-breaker. Every MB owner that she has talked to (including her sister) has had nothing but problems!
I keep telling her to wait for the new 2007 ES350(?). With my luck, however, the new 2007 LS-series will be "drop-dead" gorgeous, in which case I will be writing a much bigger check!
#5869 of 10348 Re: LPS cars, LPS houses, LPS lives. . . [jimbres]
Jan 12, 2006 (12:15 pm)
Sounds to me as though both you guys may be writing substantual checks...The same happened to me a few month ago Tony
#5870 of 10348 Re: LPS cars, LPS houses, LPS lives. . . [jimbres]
Jan 12, 2006 (12:18 pm)
The Avalon may also be worth considering. No info on the ES yet, but considering how nice the new Camry is, I'm sure it will be very impressive, and will have a lot more high tech features than the E class, for a lot less cash.
#5871 of 10348 Re: LPS cars, LPS houses, LPS lives. . . [jimbres]
Jan 12, 2006 (12:24 pm)
I still don't understand how you seem to be fine living with the premise that you expect to shel out $2K on car related issues (and I don't know whether this is per car or total) within the next 90 days while the extended warranty for my M45 sport for 10-years and 100K miles is less than $2K. As much as I believe in reliability of japanese makes, my parents' 10 year old Camry required $4K to $6K in repairs every year until we traded it in. And if you do the research, you can find more than one A+ rated companies that are underwriting these extended warranties, and even these companies have performance bonds so if they go out of business there is an insurance company that will pay for your repairs. I just don't understand the premise of tying up capital if we are talking less than $2K up front on a $55K+ car.
#5872 of 10348 Re: LPS cars, LPS houses, LPS lives. . . [aas5]
Jan 12, 2006 (1:15 pm)
I don't think there is an extended warranty out there that is going to pay for repairs on a 10-year old car. Most of us will hit 100k miles long before ten years. It's essentially a 7-year warranty. So you'd be SOL for those $4-6K/year in years 10, 11, etc.
If there is a true ten-year warranty (without a mileage limit), it will cost more than 2k.
if extended warranties were such a good idea for the consumer, they'd be more expensive
but you guys get my meaning
the insurance companies do make money on these policies, or they wouldn't sell them. Insuring against a 5k loss is just bad home economics. If you can't afford to fix a car when it needs a repair, then you probably spent too much on your car to begin with. You should have bought a used one and saved your money for when the repairs come.
for every one of us with a story about how great extended warranties are, there are ten of us who have bought an extended warranty and never made a claim
#5873 of 10348 Re: LPS cars, LPS houses, LPS lives. . . [calidave]
Jan 12, 2006 (2:30 pm)
"what is the dollar value of the factory 50,000 mile warranty or warranty/maintenance?"
"would you take a new XYZ with a 'credit for no warranty' or would you jus' go ahead and pay the price for the car with the warranty?"
My neighbor's 7 year old SUV is paid for. His maintenance costs are probably somewhat higher on this vehicle than on a 2006 model. His "fix" costs, so he claims have exceeded, $4,000 per year (so he says) for the past 4 years. I keep trying to cipher and speculate and calculate, because this, apparently, doesn't include tires, oil changes and "wear and tear" items.
He has no payments (no fin or lease payments), but he is apparently running some $350 per month AVERAGE to keep it going (not including the expensive maint items like tires, etc.) I dunno how much the thing cost new but it is a Chebby Suburban, Land-Yacht edition (and he does love the car, so that is a factor.)
I just wonder if my "permanent" car payments (which includes 'everything' since I have one Audi and one BMW both with full maint and warranty to 50,000 miles) are that much different than my neighbor's?
Someone here will certainly tell me where my thinking has derailed -- but, it seems he has had the same car for 7 years (not that there is anything wrong with that), meanwhile for similar out of pocket money I have a current technology (and hopefully superior content) vehicle and in the same period of time have had three vehicles.
I don't know that this makes sense, most of us seem to be ready to argue that this "story" even if we accept it as 100% true and accurate is an anomaly. In fact it seems that some folks here think "reliable German cars" are an oxymoron (or just an anomaly) but that "reliable Japanese cars" are standard normal expected outcomes.
I'm probably wrong headed and what's wrong with this country today, but I'd rather cough up my monthly lease payment which includes the "insurance policy" from the factory in the price, rather than be in my neighbor's situation. It just smells like he spends about the same as I do, but has a 7 year old car that seems to need something worked on regularly and frequently.
The Audi CPO at ~ $1295 seems like a great way to "self insure a bit and spread the risk a bit."
If the 1 in 10 comment is accurate, and I have no way to prove or disprove it except that it seems to make sense, perhaps simple self insurance still is prudent and my neighbor's situation would be the 1, rather than the 9.
I'm so confused -- I thought I had a pretty rational approach, you have made me reconsider it.
Ignorance may actually be, after all, bliss.
#5874 of 10348 Re: LPS cars, LPS houses, LPS lives. . . [markcincinnati]
Jan 12, 2006 (3:48 pm)
anyone spending $4k/year to keep a $20,000 (at BEST) vehicle alive is a moron.
Granted, we never know what next year is gonna bring, and we all hope that today's big car repair expense is going to be the last one for a while, but....
I can see spending that money in year 4...and year 5...but AGAIN in year 6???...AND year 7? not likely
#5875 of 10348 Re: LPS cars, LPS houses, LPS lives. . . [aas5]
Jan 12, 2006 (4:47 pm)
Go back & re-read my post. My point (& perhaps my style of writing obscured it) is that past experience has taught me that this $2K expenditure will probably be house related - not car related. I then went on to list all of the stuff in my house (antique washer/dryer, etc.) that will likely head south during the coming year. My conclusion is simply this: if you don't know what tomorrow's crisis will be, you're far better off building up your savings.
Suppose you spend $1800 on a gold-plated service contract on your new car. Six months later, your cesspool caves in. Wouldn't you have been better off if you had stashed that $1800 in, say, EmigrantDirect.com's 4% savings account?
(I'm not a shareholder in or an employee of Emigrant Bank. Just a satisfied customer.)
#5876 of 10348 Re: LPS cars, LPS houses, LPS lives. . . [markcincinnati]
Jan 12, 2006 (5:19 pm)
There's another way of looking at this, Mark.
Yes, the $4K per year that your neighbor is spending to keep his SUV on the road seems like a lot of money. Hell, it is a lot of money.
But the 1st-year depreciation on a new $35K SUV will be at least $6K. So you could argue that your neighbor is actually saving a cool $2,000 per year by fixing what he already owns.
At some point, of course, he'll grow weary of the hard seats, old magazines & bad coffee in his dealership's service area waiting room, march into the showroom & pick out something new & shiny. We're only human, after all. We can only take so much.
But your neighbor isn't dumb. I've observed that most folks worry too much about post-warranty repair costs & too little about depreciation. Most of the time, what it costs to keep an old car on the road is less than what depreciation will cost you in the 1st year that you own (or lease) a new car.