Last post on May 01, 2013 at 3:12 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan
#5851 of 10338 LPS cars, LPS houses, LPS lives. . .
Jan 10, 2006 (12:31 pm)
. . .hmmm, let's see, we live in upper and upper middle class urbania or sububurbia; we have decent incomes and we drive cars that cost from $45 to $65 thousand dollars.
I'll bet we have serious life insurance policies, even if our houses are paid for. I'll be we have serious "home owner" insurance policies with multi-million dollar liability (umbrella) riders.
I'll bet we bundle our car and homeowner's insurance together maybe we even do this with our car, house and life policies to squeeze out that little extra % discount.
Speaking as an insignificant statistic: We made one claim against our auto insurance in the past few years (10?) and that was for a two by four that fell off of a truck and hit my wife's new BMW front bumper (plastic) and it had to be replaced (we have $250 deductible.) We have earthquake insurance (in SW Ohio, who would've thought?) In 1990 just after we moved into our then brand new custom built (by us) house, it was struck by lightening (twice) which fried every electronic doo dad we own, including the toaster. We made a claim on that.
We keep paying for all this insurance. My guess is we're way way way upside down on the auto insurance equation having paid much more in in premiums than we have made claims. Now at year 16, I would guess we're pretty far upside down on the homeowner's policy including the new home theater, PC's and modem and toasters lost in 1990.
We keep paying for all this insurance.
I'd wager, to repeat, we would not even consider NOT continuing our car and house insurance.
Yet, we buy $50,000 cars with the expecation (apparently) that they should "be used and used and used" without ever breaking (or hardly ever.) We "expect" a warranty, heck some of us even expect free maintenance, free loaner cars, free coffee and donuts, free car washes and a box of cookies annually from the dealer thanking us for buying a car in 2003 (or whenever.)
I have been in the "argument" before -- probably even here on edmunds -- but, IMHO we should not expect to keep these cars without sufficient financial resources or "extended" programs, for these vehicles even more than most are "breathtakingly expensive" to service, maintain and repair.
If I decide to keep my 7 month old 2005 A6 to 49,998 miles, I cannot dream of NOT paying the dealer the "quoted" cost of $1,195 (my cost, so he says) to get the car "certified" to 6 years or 100,000 miles (whichever comes first) by the time 49,999.9 miles rolls around on the odometer.
I would no sooner drive on the public highways without collision, liability, medical and comprehensive insurance than I would keep one without a service and warranty insurance policy. I would not own my house (even after my last mortgage payment) without insurance (all kinds: fire, theft, so-called act of god, liability and earthquake) even though I know I have had virtually no use for such insurance in my 54 years on planet earth.
Just a thought.
#5852 of 10338 Re: LPS cars, LPS houses, LPS lives. . . [markcincinnati]
Jan 10, 2006 (12:56 pm)
#5853 of 10338 Re: LPS cars, LPS houses, LPS lives. . . [tayl0rd]
Jan 10, 2006 (1:21 pm)
In response to those who are greatly concerned with the reliability or lack thereof of some (many?) of the LPS brands, I am often amazed at how "running naked" (without the blanket of insurance against major repairs and perhaps even maintenance) seems to be an option for so many folks who have possibly never had a claim against their homeowners or auto insurance policies but would never in a million years go without said insurance.
I am not trying to excuse the European (or American) LPS cars nor suggest somehow that Japanese cars aren't as reliable and durable as so many appear to be convinced.
Simply I am pointing out my own inability to see THAT much difference between the insurance policies we buy for houses and life and health and even auto accident coverage and "insuring" against catastrophic repair bills that are becoming more and more commonplace due to the complexity of an LPS car.
Yet, even the folks who live in extremely safe geographies, I would imagine, continue to buy other kinds of insurance despite the apparent lack of "need" for such.
Automobiles hit potholes have often violent presses of their pedals and turns of their wheels, etc -- and this kind of wear and tear is expected to be taken almost indefinitely without financial consequences.
We would not go without insurance on anything valuable or expensive, is my point. And the secondary point is to consider extended warranties on $50K cars to not be an unreasonable or perhaps even unexpected expense beyond the first 4 years or 50,000 miles.
We insure our LPS "lives" why not our LPS cars with respect to wear and tear?
I am, apparently, making less sense than usual. Sorry.
#5854 of 10338 Re: LPS cars, LPS houses, LPS lives. . . [markcincinnati]
Jan 10, 2006 (2:27 pm)
I respectfully disagree, Mark.
One of the fundamental axioms of property & casualty insurance is that one should not pay a 3rd party to assume a risk that one can afford to assume on one's own.
In other words, self-insure whenever possible. Buy insurance only to protect yourself from truly crippling losses.
A few years ago, an electrical fire caused $150K worth of damage to our next-door neighbor's house in only 15 minutes. The house was uninhabitable for more than 6 months afterwards. (What was particularly unsettling about this was that none of the damage was visible from the street.)
That, my friend, is a genuinely catastrophic loss - one that would bankrupt most of us in the absence of insurance - & that's why I carry the best available homeowner's coverage from the financially strongest carrier doing business in my area.
By the same token, I don't consider even a $5K+ transmission job, which should be a once-in-a-lifetime event, to be remotely comparable. Mind you, if this were to happen to me, I'd be cranky as hell that week. But I wouldn't have to postpone retirement or even skip a vacation. I'd moan & groan, grumble & complain but I'd pay it. It wouldn't change my life & it shouldn't change yours.
To my way of thinking, anyone who owns or is close to owning a car in the $40K+ bracket should have a suitably strong balance sheet. That means little or no non-mortgage debt & plenty of liquidity. A solid balance sheet beats the stuffing out of & eliminates the need for any extended warranty / service contract.
I must admit that I was immunized against these things at an early age. When I bought my 1st new car - a '74 Honda Civic hatchback - my father insisted that I buy a service contract. He was co-signing the loan, so I reluctantly did as he asked. A couple of years later, on a whim, I pulled the fancy warranty certificate out of the shoebox on my closet shelf & called the phone number for claims, only to get an out-of-service recording. It turned out that the service contract issuer went belly up not long after I bought the contract. For some reason, I wasn't surprised.
I never again purchased a service contract & have never regretted it. (For the record, the most expensive single repair bill I've ever had to pay was > $1.4K, & that was on an 11-yr-old car.)
#5855 of 10338 Re: LPS cars, LPS houses, LPS lives. . . [jimbres]
Jan 10, 2006 (2:39 pm)
you are lecturing us about financial issues and you put $1400 into an 11-year old car?
I do agree with the rest of your post. Just yankin your chain re the repair on the junker.
#5856 of 10338 Re: LPS cars, LPS houses, LPS lives. . . [calidave]
Jan 10, 2006 (2:43 pm)
A running 11-year-old Honda is worth more than $1400 (even in 1985), while one that doesn't run isn't worth a nickel.
#5857 of 10338 Re: LPS cars, LPS houses, LPS lives. . . [markcincinnati]
Jan 10, 2006 (3:06 pm)
What would have been the extra cost per month to lease the A6 4.2 model and were you tempted to do it?
#5858 of 10338 Re: LPS cars, LPS houses, LPS lives. . . [calidave]
Jan 10, 2006 (3:16 pm)
Guilty as charged, Dave. Certainly not my brightest move. I should've gotten rid of that clunker when it turned 10. But life & work were so crazy then that I had no time for car stuff. The easy way out was to hand my credit card to my mechanic & tell him to call me when he had fixed the Green Turd.
I do think, though, that he should've put me on his Christmas card list after that.
I'll probably never again keep a car past its 10th birthday.
#5859 of 10338 Re: Thank You! [docnukem]
Jan 10, 2006 (3:21 pm)
Hpowders: Recheck the M boards. Almost all of the problems reported concern the moonroof (rattles--where there is at lease one TSB) or noise level. A few people have some type of problem with a heat-exchanger or something making a racket as the car is cooling (after parking).
My M was on the second shipment from Japan and had both the moonroof rattle and exhaust pinging sound during cool-down problems. My dealer bent over backwards in correcting both problems (TSBs were issued for both - that's my car in the picture!). The engineers were really eager to find out about and to resolve any issues with their new baby. Infiniti quickly changed their production methods so both of these are no longer an issue. I've had no other issues with the car. My complete story is documented on the Edmunds forums.
I'm a previous owner of a 5-series, E-series, Porsche and Lexus Coupe. All were first years of their design and all had issues. The difference is that not only did the BMW and M-B have more problems but their service departments treated me so poorly - I'm wasn't sure that they cared about such mundane things as quality. Lexus acted liked Infiniti has - Porsche in the middle.
#5860 of 10338 Re: Thank You! [drtravel]
Jan 10, 2006 (4:07 pm)
Good to hear Infiniti took care of your problems.
In 12 years of BMW's, the only service visits were for oil changes, hot chocolate, bottled water and Famous Amos chocolate chip cookies.