Last post on Nov 25, 2013 at 11:27 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan
#5773 of 10348 Re: 5 Series Sales [drtravel]
Jan 05, 2006 (10:52 am)
Around here, all the LPS cars seem to be using heavily subvented leases to move cars -- especially Cadillac.
A new STS, "$11 down and $11 a month, and if you don't have the $11 we'll loan it to you. Cash's CadillacTown just a mental-block and a bridge from downtown Porkopolis; bring the kids, bring your family, bring your mother-in-law to Cash's Big Cadillac Bargain Barn, where you save cash with Cash!"
My buddy's BMW X5 turned 49,500 today -- had it for 3 years (and he bought it.) His wife says, "it's too small, time to trade. . ."
I know some of you folks here in LPS land are cash buyers, but with lease deals this heavily subvented, it is really getting hard to feel good about personally taking on the depreciation hit and with these ludicrously low money factors, buying seems to be exactly what THEY hope you don't go for.
I need to read the fine print, but it looks like my car today could be had for about the same lease payment as I got in June 2005 -- but the term would be 24 months NOT 36.
Hard to turn these kind of deals down -- perhaps they "make it up in volume."
#5775 of 10348 March-December sales
Jan 05, 2006 (11:28 am)
Here are the LPS sales from March til the end of the year
STS 28,600 (est)
Infiniti was hoping to sell 24,000 Ms annually - the fact that they did it 10 months means they were a little conservative in their estimates and might increase production - dealer inventories are still lean around these parts. Lexus wanted to sell 36,000 GSs annually so they are right on target - however GS sales have a history of tapering off big time.
#5776 of 10348 Re: December sales [merc1]
Jan 05, 2006 (11:40 am)
Yeah you did manage to beat my E-Class by a few sales, congrats.
March-December sales were almost identical. The impressive thing about E-Class sales is that MB doesn't subsidize their lease programs to move cars like BMW does. So either more people are buying E-Classes than 5-series or they are willing to pay more for the monthly lease payment. In either case quite impressive given MBs well documented quality issues plus their less than stellar comparison results.
Maybe there are two camps of owners - those who love their MB and wouldn't consider another brand or those who have had problems and will never own another MB again. The latter group is much smaller than the former but much more vocal. Unfortunately I'm (and many of my friends) in the second camp but still like MB designs.
#5777 of 10348 Re: What they don't know. . . [markcincinnati]
Jan 05, 2006 (11:53 am)
I do agree with your comment that not all the hybrids are using hybrid technology to simply increase mpg. Am not sure that is a bad thing. If you can get a sporty feel out of a 25 mpg vehicle by adding hybrid technology, and thereby take a guy out of a 17 mpg car and get him into a 25 mpg car, that's a gain, from purely a conservation of gas standpoint (and emissions, as well)
My main point re hybrids is illustrated by another poster who said that "hybrids represent a lifestyle statement, not something that saves resources." I completely agree. But that isn't any different than why ANYone buys ANY vehicle. EVery SUV purchased in a lifestyle statement. Every mustang purchased is a lifestyle statement. Every CAMRY is a lifestyle statement. (OK, maybe 25% of vehicle purchases are not lifestyle statement.) It is not fair to hold hybrid buyers to a different standard than we hold non-hybrid buyers to. People buy cars for many many different reasons. Some people buy cars because of the SEAT!!! Or the COLOR. Or the TV campaign. Very few people make a car-buing decision on only one factor. Hybrid buyers are no different.
Now, I admit that most hybrid owners, when you say "why'd you buy your hybrid?" will ALL say, "Oh, the mpg is great." But when you push them, they get real geeky and start talking about gauges, and how it's so quiet, and all sorts of stuff that most of us don't care about.
#5778 of 10348 Re: What they don't know. . . [cdnpinhead]
Jan 05, 2006 (12:00 pm)
pinhead: Again, hybrids are not purchased ONLY because of efficiency.
How do you think all YOUR car purchases would hold up if we only evaluated them based on ONE Factor? People buy cars for a NUMBER of reasons. Efficiency is NOT the only reason one buys a hybrid. Just as "great 0-60" time is not the only reason a person buys a particular sports car.
#5779 of 10348 I'm not sure that
Jan 05, 2006 (12:45 pm)
hybrids belong in a discussion about luxury performance sedans ...
#5780 of 10348 Re: When it comes to safety and hybrids [calidave]
Jan 05, 2006 (12:50 pm)
First things first. Chill out. Your cussing and attitude don't do a thing to solidify your opinion and get your point of view across. Don't assume to know me or anything about me.
That said, my comment was not so much about emissions, which hybrids obviously generate. Any gasoline engine will. THAT is a fact. Emissions, or lack thereof, are important to consider.
My initial comments were more about the left overs/consumables that are taken out of the hybrid when batteries are recycled. How much do those batteries weigh? I honestly don't know how much is reusable and how much ends up in a dump/cannister/whatever. I admit that. Please enlighten us on how much of the battery packs are recycled and how much is left in the dump/cannister/whatever. References would be appreciated as well. Please dispell that red herring.
As an aside, how do emissions ratings compare for a vehicle like a Prius to a SULEV vehicle?
As for safety, in the absense of personal experience, yes I do look at crash data from multiple sources and from multiple impact points, just as you do. I applaud your driving record if you have little or no personal experience with accidents and resulting injuries. But when a family member survives an 80+ mph crash and WALKS away with NO scratches, no bruises, no soreness, and no cabin intrusion, that will leave a serious impression in your mind.
THAT is the personal observation/experience to which I was referring.
Hybrids are not a bad thing, but they aren't the holy grail of automotive perfection either. I will again say hybrids and current gas power-engines are not the long-term answer as they consume essentially non-renewable resources. Renewable energy sources may be the way of the future and will hopefully have less harmful emissions such as water favor or french fry-smelling exhaust.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
#5781 of 10348 Re: What they don't know. . . [calidave]
Jan 05, 2006 (1:07 pm)
I am not at all unwilling or unhappy to continue a conversation pertaining to almost any subject.
The LPS cars as a group often are the laboratories or first to market with cool and new features and technologies. Hybrid I assume is one LPS feature or technology and as such it probably deserves to be brought to market in the LPS car class.
Other, some might say, easier to justify (some might not) features and technologies, too, seem at first blush to make sense (to me at least) yet they are not apparently as cool or whatever and therefore they seem to be put on the back burner.
I am thinking the articles I read that "argued" not so much AGAINST hybrids as FOR diesels coupled to CVT transmissions were in the "op ed" pieces in Car and Drive and Motor Trend and the "what's up" sections of Popular Science and / or Popular Mechanics (I read so many magazines over the Christmas holiday, they have blurred into one.) After reading a "look what can be done with diesels (and it was largely lauding their talents as could be applied to PERFORMANCE cars) article in one followed by a "the economic case against hybrids" (which did suggest there was at least in the near term no ecological negative) in another, it just got me to thinking as I watched endless Ford (and other) commercials chest pounding about the hundreds of millions of dollars that would be spent on hybrids as if hybrids (alone) were THE holy grail.
Nary a nod to the diesel supporters who don't have to make a case for the future or rely on tax incentives to explain and persuade.
Hate to use the "fair and balanced" phrase since the Ford communications were MARKETING, but are all the folks who write and contribute in the magazines (for instance) that I noted all wack-o's with ideas that don't merit insertion into our current topics table of contents?
Unless those folks who write with such great passion about the "hot rod" (performance) allure of diesels (and Oh By The Way they add, you get better economy too) are spouting nonsense and gibberish, it seems we are being told in and by the "mainstream" media that hybrids are "it" without even giving a nod to other apparently viable alternatives (that seem to make more sense financially.)
We need a multi pronged approach to alternative "motivation" for our vehicles. LPS cars would be THE logical place to begin bringing these new technologies to market.
In 1985 my friend got a new BMW it had a wonderful and new technology in it -- it was called ABS. It is my belief that virtually all new cars no matter how tiny their MSRP's now have this. It rarely, if ever, works the other way around -- dual airbags seemed to be first in the LPS crowd, now its stability and lane departure systems and Xenon and bi-xenon and who knows what's next quad-xenon, etc. These new convenience, fun, safety, performance and lux oriented "features and content" often are accompanied by technologies that improve reliability and economy; then they trickle down.
Hopefully, we can be informed and edumacated to the alternatives in addition to hybrids is the whole thesis from my perspective.
Putting them in LPS cars is my subtext.
Jan 05, 2006 (1:45 pm)
There are enough non-objectional descriptive words in the English language we can use without resorting to vulgarities.
It really is out of place here.
Thank you for your consideration!