Last post on Nov 25, 2013 at 11:27 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan
#5117 of 10348 Re: Test drove. . . and keyless
Nov 22, 2005 (8:23 pm)
With the Audi Advanced Key, there is still a key hole, the key works normally if the pushbutton start fails.
Although I am on my fourth pushbutton start, this one has worked for 2 months, without issue, a new record.
The MSRP of the LPS cars: Audi A6 3.2, BMW 330xi and Infiniti M35x are NOT similar, but they are within some reason competitive. My A6 with the options as I built it was $53,286; the BMW would be ~ $57K, the Infiniti about $51K -- the lease payments, however (initially) put the cars in this order (but there WAS NO 530xi, so this is a guess based on the then current 530i) BMW, Infiniti and Audi. The Audi was about $200 MORE than the BMW and the Infiniti.
I wanted an AWD car -- I would not buy an RWD car with YOUR money -- the Audi was way more expensive than the Infiniti (before the deal came through from Audi) and there was no AWD 5 from BMW, but the then current MORE EXPENSIVE 5 was less money from a lease standpoint.
If BMW wants to offer a car that is over 5% more MSRP for over 22% less per month on a comparable lease, hmm, gee, gosh, the BMW deserves your attention.
The BMW is ugly (to me), but it certainly is at least as good as the Audi behind the wheel (ditto the Infiniti).
There is little reason to pay more for any of these cars than the others -- they are far more similar than not.
Again this is the conclusion and the place I have come to rest (after 27 Audis).
What this means is I am, thus far, biased -- I think the Audi is the better car, overall. But some factors have happened: BMW now offers AWD and retained the stick shift and Infiniti now builds a car that needs to make no excuses to play with the Audi and BMW.
Price has, for me, for once (and possibly from this point on) become a differentiator.
For years, BMW's couldn't touch Audis WHEN PRICE WAS FACTORED in -- not so anymore.
To underscore this, my 2001 A6 4.2 V8 sport with every option was less money (both in MSRP and lease payments) than a 2001 RWD BMW 5 with all the options and a 6 cylinder. At the time, I figured all folks buying such a BMW when the 4.2 V8 quattro Audi was offered for less, bought the hood emblem, rather than the absolute performance.
Now we are at a place where the BMW, Audi and Infiniti LPS AWD versions are all great cars.
Price, for right or wrong, has become far more of a differentiator than performance.
And, yes, it is one man's opinion. Mine.
You may argue your for your fave -- and from a styling standpoint, you have a leg to stand on -- but the Infiniti M and the BMW (and I think the Audi) are not THAT different beyond the cosmetic.
As someone famous once said, "I wouldn't kick any of these out for eating crackers in bed, in fact I would not be opposed to bringing the crackers."
I am happy with my A6 -- I am without a doubt, certain I would have been delighted with the M35X, too.
In the present tense, the 530xi manual would get my vote if it were competitively priced (lease payments.)
Gone are the days, IMHO, of Audis "superior by virtue of being a bargain + being AWD."
The customer wins from where I sit.
#5118 of 10348 Re: One Publications Top 10... [hpowders]
Nov 22, 2005 (9:02 pm)
Did you see C&D's article about what construction zone super-fines are really about? They showed the real statistics that at least as many if not more highway construction workers are killed by construction vehicles than actual cars. Yet states still increase fines in these areas by 200% or more. Its just a scam to make money, nothing more. I've been through more than a few construction zones where they chose to post a 45mph speed limit sign about a mile into the zone, with a cop sitting right in front of it. A scam to bust people for going 60 in a "45 zone" even though they had no idea the limit had been lowered to 45 until it was too late.
#5119 of 10348 Re: The M reminds me of a girl I knew... [sdiver68]
Nov 22, 2005 (11:13 pm)
Reminds of watching a beautiful girl walk down the street, all the married men look and dream that there was wife was just as hot. The women all look at her and tell each other that she does not look that good without her makeup..
Yep, that is how many people feel about the classic, elegant, superbly engineered beauty, know as the BMW 5 Series.
#5120 of 10348 Re: The M reminds me of a girl I knew... [bmwdoug]
Nov 22, 2005 (11:26 pm)
Uh, I've never drooled over a 5 series. I dont think it would make it into my top 100 list of gorgeous cars, let alone the top spot.
#5121 of 10348 Re: The M reminds me of a girl I knew... [bmwdoug]
Nov 23, 2005 (12:32 am)
You've got to be kidding! The latest incarnation of the 5 series is gnaw your arm off ugly. As for engineering, I would say that it is engineered to make money in the service bay as well as the sales department.
#5122 of 10348 Re: MT C.O.Y. [drtravel]
Nov 23, 2005 (4:26 am)
Don't know really what to make of MT's COY. The Lincoln LS was its COY in 2000. Read the LS forums and reviews elsewhere and you'll see that COY is apparently no indicator of what makes for a solid, quality car.
#5123 of 10348 Re: The M reminds me of a girl I knew... [sdiver68]
Nov 23, 2005 (4:55 am)
"Interestingly, the top posermobiles are BMW, Porsche, and Corvettes."
Please provide some type of backup to this wild assertion.
But I'd like to add that a poseur does not buy something to look cool, they buy things that are out of their range/capability. Given the latter definition we can include Lexus, INfiniti, Acura and many, many more manufacturers as cars poseurs buy.
#5124 of 10348 Re: The M reminds me of a girl I knew... [bmwdoug]
Nov 23, 2005 (5:06 am)
Not me, Doug.
If you were talking about the E39 - the pre-Bangle 5-series - I'd probably agree with you. A well-cared-for E39 still turns my head.
I'm a satisfied BMW owner (an E46-gen 330i), so you'd expect me to favor the 5-series over the Infiniti M. But the E60 simply doesn't fill me with the urge to possess. Whereas the E39 looked sensuous & organic to me, the E60 strikes me as forced & contrived. I won't say that it's downright ugly, but it's within shouting distance of homely.
Even so, given a choice between the M & the 5, I'd probably buy the 5, but for just 1 reason: I can have the 5 with a stick. For me, that trumps styling. Take away the stick, & I'd probably buy the M.
#5125 of 10348 Re: The M reminds me of a girl I knew... [jimbres]
Nov 23, 2005 (5:21 am)
Much as I am not a fan of the 5's looks (inside and out), I don't "hate it," and it is a legitimate LPS car for sure.
It would, or should if you are looking for maximum "P," merit your attention for no other attribute than the fact that it can still be had with a manual transmission.
As good as these automatics have become, they are still quite primitive when compared with your eyes, feet and hands working in harmony to control your LPS car.
I must be becoming "velocitized" to my automatic -- and this troubles me -- I really don't have much to complain about the transmission that Audi has put into the new A6 (unlike the 5 spd tiptronics of yesteryear.)
But the isolation from part of the driving experience would not be missed if all of these cars would come standard with manual transmissions.
Fun, safety and performance (in any order you want) are increased with a stick shift.
And, despite my belief that this is at least 51% objective, this is clearly a minority opinion, for most of us here are NOT likely to NOT buy based solely on the availability of a manual transmission.
My dealer says, "try selling one of these things without a sunroof, no one would buy." I assume this means the sunroof is more important than the transmission -- "what a world, what a world" (wicked witch of the west as she melts away.)
#5126 of 10348 Re: One Publications Top 10... [lexusguy]
Nov 23, 2005 (6:11 am)
All part of the grand plan:
The fleecing of America.
Those guys are out there trying to bust me for "speeding" and right around the holiday season, they call me to make a donation.
Waiting for the phone to ring...