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Sedans Luxury Performance Sedans
10007 messages, Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 7:40 AM
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Replying to: drtravel (Nov 10, 2005 4:13 pm) I keep on hearing the same question in many forums? The fact of the matter is that most people buy a BMW because most models have the best drivetrains/chassis combo in the industry. Customers love the way they drive and based on JD Power and Consumer Reports figures most BMW models(except the 7 series) are not unreliable So does that mean there are no BMW badger hunters? Ofcourse there are! There are as many BMW badge hunters as there are Lexus badge hunters, especially among the majority of Lexus owners who feel distinguished by buying a Lexus RX330/ES330 versus a Toyota Highlander/Camry! |
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Replying to: jjacura (Nov 10, 2005 4:58 pm) www.chronocentric.com/watches/brands.shtml and read the parts about "Aren't Rolex the best watches in the world?" and "If Rolex is not the only superior watch brand, why haven't I heard of these other watches?". Let's not underestimate the importance of the 1980's yuppies on the popularity of German sedans. I was a yuppie back then (hate to admit it though) and had to own that Porsche. Remember how they went from exclusive to common? How did that eventually work out? I feel honored to be compared with Mark but he is definitely the "luxury" writer in this forum. I'm a want-to-be envious of Marks' writing abilities.
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Replying to: dewey (Nov 10, 2005 5:19 pm) Couldn't actually find this info in my book of facts. It's your opinion (and I know it's not based on your bias) and may be correct for most BMW owners on this forum - however I'm not sure it applies to most 5-series buyers who never bless us with their company. Lexus badge hunters, especially among the majority of Lexus owners who feel distinguished by buying a Lexus RX330/ES330 versus a Toyota Highlander/Camry! Hmm...longer warranty, better customer service experience, slightly higher quality of materials..... |
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Replying to: drtravel (Nov 10, 2005 6:16 pm) Couldn't actually find this info in my book of facts. It's your opinion (and I know it's not based on your bias) and may be correct for most BMW owners on this forum Pick up any magazine/newspaper/online comparo and most will agree with the BMW drive... Obviously it's a subjective rating, but if virtually all professional comparo people say the same thing year after year, there must be something to it.
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Replying to: drtravel (Nov 10, 2005 6:16 pm) 
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Replying to: bdr127 (Nov 10, 2005 7:34 pm) Anyhow I originally just wondered about the psychological motivation behind LPS purchases and what role the badge had in that process. Debating which LPS is the best car is not my intent. Prestige, ego-stroking and brand are important for the sales of all luxury goods (Rolex watches, Chanel Handbags etc.) so it does have an impact on LPS sales. |
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Replying to: bdr127 (Nov 10, 2005 7:34 pm) Couldn't actually find this info in my book of facts. It's your opinion (and I know it's not based on your bias) and may be correct for most BMW owners on this forum Pick up any magazine/newspaper/online comparo and most will agree with the BMW drive... Hey, I think you misunderstood DrT's point: Even if it is a widely held and therefore true "fact" that BMWs have the best drive train/chassis combo, whether that is the primary reason people buy BMWs (as opposed to its status, or its included maintenance plan, or whatever) is a separate issue and NOT itself a "fact" - unless you have some marketing survey of BMW buyers that you would like to share with us. Hey, I think the above qualifies as the longest sentence I've ever written for a forum! Subsequent edit: DrT posted simultaneously his own explanation consistent with what I wrote above. I should have known he didn't need my defense... |
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Replying to: drtravel (Nov 10, 2005 6:04 pm) |
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Just read an Edmunds Inside interview with BMW Chairman Helmut Panke! BAD NEWS FROM BMW Everything in this interview curbed my enthusiasm about the future of BMW. Here are the three main points that I found least exciting: 1)Regarding the upcoming 1 series in North America: Q:Is a three-box sedan more likely? A:There are many alternatives. We have not given that away, but it's not going to be a hatch. I would never ever consider buying a 1 series unless it was a hatchback! I would favor an Audi A3 hatch versus a unpractical sub-compact sedan 1 series. 2) In the interview Mr. Panke talks about two vehicles: a crossover version of the X5 series and a "functional concept vehicle" IMO BMW will begin to spread itself far too thin with these minivan variations! It should remain a niche player and focus on its strengths: sport performance cars! 3) Also he talked about a hydrogen BMW 7 series! I just cant wait to read future posts in this forum about the CR reliability of a hydrogen 7 series vehicle
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Perhaps you have been invited to the Road & Track / Car & Driver "editor for a day" event. If you have, and it was the same one that seemed to be touring in our neck of the woods (Ohio, Kentucky, Michigan, Indiana, Pennsylvania, & West Virginia) you know that you were treated to the chance to ride and drive and evaluate a BMW 530 vs a Cadillac STS (V6) and a Lexus GS. You actually had a couple of different comparos, so if you have participated in this event, you may have had different cars to compare. But, no matter what you are comparing, there will always be a Cadillac in the mix. At the time, this didn't seem odd or out of place in any way -- the cars under eval were in theory at least competitors. I fully expected the BMW to be the accelerating, braking and handling champeen. In both of the day's comparos, the Cadillacs flat out beat the other competitors. Objectively, or at least quasi-objectively, the CTS and STS models "kicked butt." Of course, by asking appropriate questions AND then after all the Sturm und Drang being ushered into a tent that was obviously a portable Cadillac showroom, it hit me: this "editor for a day" event was rigged. The BMW was a 2005 225 HP car with standard everything and this means small wheels and tires -- especially since the STS was "sport everything," including big and wide 18" low profile balonies on shiny optional chrome wheels. The interior of the BMW's were all black, the Cadillacs had a creamy ecru interior that somehow made the car seem less confining and open. I'd even bet, but I can't prove it, that the BMW had the minimum allowable air pressure in its High Performance All Season tires and that the Cadillac had the maximum allowable air pressure in its Ultra High Performance Summer Only tires. The Caddy with its sport suspension and w-i-d-e tires was composed and calm, and by comparison, the STS's 255HP made the Bimmer seem downright anemic. Three people plus a "pro" driver were given the opportunity to drive the six cars each twice around "the track" (cones set up in a huge asphalt parking lot.) Most of us were "car nuts" (men and women alike) -- and most of us were biased in favor of the BMW. Until the very end, I think most of us couldn't figure out why the BMW seemed to wallow, understeer and have difficulty with probably over 700 pounds of passenger mass. Had they NOT ushered us into the Cadillac tent after the festivities, I am convinced I would be here telling you I might have given the Cadillac a short shrift while I was shopping (I had had my new A6 about one month at the time of this event, so there was no turning back.) Instead, I am here to tell you that these cars are obviously more alike than different and that they are indeed quite sensitive to suspension settings, tires and wheels. More sensitive than I would have imagined. Indeed, to underscore that point, I must remind you that I have now been living for ONE FULL WEEK with my new higher air pressure and with more air pressure in my front tires than in my rears -- and loving the significant improvement in "turn-in" and at least the reduction of the sensation of plowing (that Audis, and some other nose heavy LPS cars are "famous" for.) What cannot be rigged, of course, is predilection -- that is your predilection for an Acura, Audi, BMW, Cadillac or whatever. Many of us have been saying for some time now that our passion for these LPS cars has little basis in logic or the scientific method. We are, as noted earlier, quite badge influenced (some of us, more than others.) I had to smile when reading the pronouncement that "The fact of the matter is that most people buy a BMW because most models have the best drivetrains/chassis combo in the industry." If we would change the word "fact" to "opinion" and "most" to "many" I could support this statement. As it stands though, the fact is that Cadillac has the best drivetrain/chassis combo -- and it is verifiable by your amateur peers and the pros alike. Of course, as noted, the results, from one point of view, were rigged. And, make mine Finlandia -- because it really, really is the best, no really. Badges, we don't need no stinkin' badges! Oh yes we do. 
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