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Luxury Performance Sedans

10007 messages,  Last post on Dec 01, 2009 at 7:40 AM

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What is this discussion about? Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan

#4838 of 10007 Re: . [wale_bate1] by dewey Nov 08, 2005 (1:27 pm)
Replying to: wale_bate1 (Nov 08, 2005 12:58 pm) Seems wrong that they'd consider bringing that and they won't even drop a 330iT here. Now an M3 Touring, that would be something worth owning... .   330iT now you got my attention! Currently an unlikely event.   An M3 Touring in electric red! What more can you ask for? I heard that the upcoming M3 will arrive in non-coupe versions . That may imply a touring version(well at least I remain a optimist)
#4839 of 10007 Re: . [tayl0rd] by lexusguy Nov 08, 2005 (5:39 pm)
Replying to: tayl0rd (Nov 08, 2005 12:19 pm) Not necessarily. According to C&D, BMW will no longer offer a V8 powered 5 wagon in the states at all, let alone an M division car.
#4840 of 10007 Buying versus renting by drtravel Nov 08, 2005 (6:17 pm)
I've always contended that when it comes to the 5-series BMW is in the rental business. Let's compare the 530i and M35. I generated figures using Edmunds prices plus I equipped the cars according to the typical options listed by Edmunds.   BMW 530i with Premium Package, Dakota Leather, Automatic Transmission, Fold Down Rear Seat, Rear Door Mounted Side Airbags MSRP = $52,880, Invoice $48,485 TMV = $51,770.   Infiniti M35 with Journey Package, Navigation System, Full Size Spare, Painted Splash Guards, Trunk Mat MSRP = $46,440, Invoice = $42,428 TMV = $45,953   So if you buy the cars at TMV, it looks like a better equipped M35 will cost you $5,817 less than the 530i. But who buys a BMW? A majority lease them because who really wants to own one past it's warranty period? - plus BMW subsidizes their lease programs.   If you lease the 530i (36 mo/36K miles) with a cap cost of $51,770, residual 62%, money factor of 0.00140 (3.36%) - the monthly payment is $645.72 + tax   If you lease the M35 (36 mo/36K miles) with a cap cost of $45,953, residual 61%, money factor of 0.00202 (4.85%) - the monthly payment is $639.62 + tax   So which one really costs more? Replies to this message: sdiver68 (Nov 08, 2005 7:14 pm) ksoman (Nov 09, 2005 7:12 am) bjbird2 (Nov 09, 2005 10:22 am)
#4841 of 10007 Re: . [jjacura] by wale_bate1 Nov 08, 2005 (6:20 pm)
Replying to: jjacura (Nov 08, 2005 1:20 pm) I hate disappointing anyone, JJ. I've never been there; I just like the flag and have a thing for Norfolk Island Pines, especially the groves planted in the 1800s on Maui!   I have been fortunate enough to enjoy a number of different andwonderful places on this earth, hopefully my luck will hold and I'll get there too someday! Replies to this message: jjacura (Nov 08, 2005 9:36 pm) wale_bate1 (Nov 09, 2005 10:14 am)
#4842 of 10007 Re: Buying versus renting [drtravel] by sdiver68 Nov 08, 2005 (7:14 pm)
Replying to: drtravel (Nov 08, 2005 6:17 pm) Well, if you are shopping the non-performance end of the L(P)S market then the subsidized 530i pretty much cleans house when you include the free maintenance. Except the M has more technology gadgets and is as close to a 7 series in size as the 5 series. So slight edge back to M, but not a deal maker edge imho.   The G, except in price, more closely competes with the 530i size and features wise at much lower cost. From a cost perspective, however, they compare it with the 3.
#4843 of 10007 Re: . [wale_bate1] by jjacura Nov 08, 2005 (9:36 pm)
Replying to: wale_bate1 (Nov 08, 2005 6:20 pm) Disappointed...naw...well maybe a little. ....that's OK. But you mentioned Pines. Then you would like the towering White Pines in northern Wisconsin and particularly in the Door County area.(The Peninsula northeast of Green Bay.) A drive along the Lake Michigan shoreline of this land will inspire the horses in any engine and put the LPS vehicles to the test. Many narrow roads, hills, cliffs, curves, sand dunes and sheer rustic beauty while driving it. Replies to this message: wale_bate1 (Nov 09, 2005 10:14 am)
#4844 of 10007 Re: Sales etc. Redux [bjbird2] by jlbl Nov 09, 2005 (2:47 am)
Replying to: bjbird2 (Nov 07, 2005 3:06 pm) Audi, MB and BMW LPS have auras closely similar to each other in Europe nowadays. If any, MB are seen as more 'senior' and BMW as more 'sporty' LPS. But Audi LPS have a mixture of everything that make them very appealing for many.   Thirty years ago the scenario was indeed different. Audi LPS—though already seen as very nice, performing cars— were clearly behind their German counterparts. It has been a long way for Audi to become a full member of the Luxury club. I believe Audi have achieved that because they have patiently combined beautiful design, technical innovations and attractive prices. Audi consistent wins in Le Mans and in some Sporty Sedan European Championships may have added selling value to their road siblings.   (The above-said is not only my opinion or the opinion in Spain as I perceive it. It is shared by friends and acquaintances through Germany, England and France. Maybe I should explain that I have made long stages in those countries since the later Seventies of the past Century.)   Perhaps Audi feel that they have to follow the same slow, patient path in the USA. Are they happy with their sales figures because of that?   Just my two cents from this side of the ocean   Regards, José
#4845 of 10007 Re: Buying versus renting [drtravel] by ksoman Nov 09, 2005 (7:12 am)
Replying to: drtravel (Nov 08, 2005 6:17 pm) my take is a lot of people buy car's by the badge for the prestige. we all know the few of us nuts who hang out here absolutely do not represent the broad demographics of real car buyers in the US of A.   That said, i'd a chance to look at an Avalon and an M side by side today again and if it had not been for the M's much much more spectacular drive quality that rivals the BMW, i'd say the Avalon is actually a more premium looking box than the M and also, sadly far less garish and less cheapo then the M. IMDHO.   The fact that the BMW costs a bit more is basically inconsiquential over the 4 year/50K mile stretch. The included service pretty much makes up for it because they will replace the brakes 5 times if needed free of cost, they will even replace the wiper inserts 4 times a year with every season change without asking questions. What I personally hate about my BMW is the fact that i've to go to the service pit over and over again due to little irritating things that keep coming back. Even if all cost was included, it's still my time spent driving to the dealership and waiting to get issues sorted out. If i calculated the cost of my time wasted on my BMW, then it's a no brainer, drop it and run... sadly, i keep it because i'm addicted to the drive.   I've to repeat, when i first saw the M at the NY auto show, i thought it looked better than the RL. Now I think, the RL may be a not so handsome brother/sister to the Acura TL, but atleast it's not like chromy and garish. I am completely turned off by the M looks and going back to my earlier point, irrespective of the people who hang out on edmunds, the broad majority of people out there who vote with their check book or cash vote for the E or the 5. I personally think the E is lovely and the 5 looks good, though, different.   One side of me thinks, anything you buy is not premium anymore if everybody else has it. To me, a part of the premium definition is exclusivity. There are just a handful of SLR owners for example. Now that's truly the premium class... but wait, i'm not in the 150K market, so let me take a step back to my upper middle class reality and the fact that I can't buy a bentley and at the end of the day all of us others are just wannabe's who make up the entry level and the mid size premium wannabe car owners of MB's and BMW's and Lexuses and etc.   BTW, i just read BMW is now the most selling premium brand even more than MB...   back to work.... ksso Replies to this message: bjbird2 (Nov 09, 2005 10:22 am)
#4846 of 10007 Re: . [jjacura] by wale_bate1 Nov 09, 2005 (10:14 am)
Replying to: jjacura (Nov 08, 2005 9:36 pm) "Then you would like the towering White Pines in northern Wisconsin and particularly in the Door County area..."   Yeah, pretty safe bet I would, from the description!   Norfolks are special though. They're a Jurassic throwback; one of the more primitive conifers on the planet that thrive in tropical marine areas. They just plain look cool.   I have seen this morning a Dolphin S4 Avant. I have seen the same one (I think) once before on a very grey morning. It was inspiring then. Still is. Don't want the color per se, but the car? Ooo, baby.
#4847 of 10007 Re: Buying versus renting [ksoman] by bjbird2 Nov 09, 2005 (10:22 am)
Replying to: ksoman (Nov 09, 2005 7:12 am) Good post!! You said what I've been saying for some time now, that is, the gap is closing on all the LPS cars, and the competition is really heating up in some unlikely brands. Examples include the new Avalon and Passat. I know some of the badge worshippers on this forum will disagree, and all I can say is drive these vehicles and try to be impartial and not swayed by the perceived value of a particular brand. You can save yourself thousands of $$$, and still have a great drive!

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