Last post on Nov 25, 2013 at 11:27 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan
#4722 of 10348 Re: October 2005 Sales [drtravel]
Nov 03, 2005 (11:35 am)
One interesting thing to note about 5 Series sales is that it managed a close second to the despite the fact that the wagon and AWD sedan have only been available for a couple of months, and the M5 is still not released yet. So it most likely would have beaten or come very close to the E if they had been available the whole time. I realize that not many M5's get sold, but I imagine that both the AWD sedan and wagon will sell well. Still can't believe that the A6 doesn't sell more. To me, it's right up there with the 5 and E (and beats both in styling) plus it costs less (about $5-$10K). I do see a fair amount of them around here in the suburbs of Chicago, but I see many more E's and 5's. I have seen a good number of M's as well. Oh, and for whatever reason, people here seem to love Caddies so I see a lot of STS' and CTS'. Where I live is actually a good case study really because on one road (Ogden Ave.) we have Lexus, Audi, BMW and Mercedes all right next to each other. In fact, the Audi, BMW and Mecedes dealerships are all owned by the same company (Autonation). In my experience, the Audi branch has the best customer service followed by BMW. The Mercedes dealership is awful. Really salesy salesman and bad customer service.
#4723 of 10348 Re: October 2005 Sales [drtravel]
Nov 03, 2005 (12:13 pm)
March thru October 2005 Sales:
E = 34,886
5 = 34,029
Forget the comparos or what your impressions of the cars in this class lead you to believe, it's obvious the E Class is the best car in the class. As I've been told, sales figures don't lie.
#4724 of 10348 Re: For The Record [freddybb]
Nov 03, 2005 (12:19 pm)
You are definitely speaking subjectively here, and it would be nice if people who supported the M were not so eager to bash people who bought something else. It feels like a giant insecurity complex. Sort of like, OK I finally can buy a decent car for $10K less than a BMW, so let me stick it in the face of every BMW buyer.
Dude did you even read the post that I was replying to? It would be nice if people who comment on my post would at least read in it context My comments were directed toward someone denigrating the M.
In my subjective opinion the interior of the 5 is ugly (sorry thats how I feel) and I absolutely do NOT feel like the BMW 5 is worth anywhere near $10,000 more than my M. I was replying to someone who condescendingly said that with the M (being $10,000 less than the M), you get what you paid for. I said it then and I'll repeat it here - for that I am glad
Nov 03, 2005 (12:38 pm)
Somewhere here in cyberspace, there is a link to the Pike's Peak International Hill Climb video. Here is a summary:
"Three victories have made the Pikes Peak International Hill Climb Race part of Audiís successful motor sport history. In 1985 the race was won by Mich√®le Mouton, the first woman driver ever to win a world championship rally. A year later, the legendary American race driver Bobby Unser proved to be unbeatable, and in 1987 Walter Rohrl, driving the Audi Sport quattro S1, scored a much-admired overall victory by conquering the Peak in the new record time of 10:47.85 minutes."
I have seen the video and when Walter Rohrl is driving his car up the hill the tail IS hanging WAY the heck out there.
Four Audi driving schools (the first one actually had both Audi A4's quattros and two BMW 3's) too have proven that Audis do drift -- the difference is they can "drift" faster. The exercise we underwent was to drive a "figure 8" on ice with a quattro with four studded snow tires and ditto with a BMW RWD 3 series also with four studded snow tires.
The exercise which was called "steering with the throttle" demonstrated the abilities of both cars -- the BMW RWD was more "tail happy" that much is true -- but in a timed situation, the figure 8 course could be taken in a shorter period of time in the AWD car than in the RWD car (hence I concluded the Audi was taking the figure 8 at a higher speed.)
In the LPS world, the P stands for Performance. While I agree with the premise that most folks probably wouldn't know (under normal none too aggressive driving) if the car they were driving was FWD, RWD or AWD, it is "more than just nice" to know that the AWD car, while not being able to break the laws of physics can be driven in such a way to yield both higher performance and a higher margin of safety for those of us prone to having "stupid attacks."
Dr. Peich was darn near ridiculed back in 1979 or so when he proclaimed something to the effect that "all LPS cars will offer AWD someday -- we at Audi AG can do it today." Of course, the term LPS didn't exist at that time, or if it did it was not used frequently. Son of a gun, though, on the 25th anniversary of quattro if every one of the LPS cars under discussion in this forum (and some not) offers at least one flavor with AWD. Piech, love him or not, was prescient.
And, despite Audis current 50 50 bias F/R, several new Audis have caved in to the pressure and are offering quattro with 40 60 bias F/R. Not so the Acuras and Volvos which are sometimes (in the case of Volvos 60 "hot rod") 95 5 bias F/R.
As far as I'm concerned, Audi could have spent all their money making the A6 (et al) better weight balanced rather than simply 40 60 power distribution biased.
But that's just me.
All of the LPS cars offer AWD perhaps for marketing, perhaps for performance or perhaps as a legitimate response to the market. For years (in the US) a super majority of Audis were sold as AWD. At my local BMW dealer (the largest in Ohio, as if that matters) they sell about 1,300 cars per year -- four of the models currently come in AWD: 3, 5, X3 & X5 -- the owner of the dealership claims the AWD models (or as he says, the X-drive cars) are much harder to keep in stock, or put another way are not ever an inventory burden. Indeed, all the 5xi's on the lot were already spoken for, save one.
There is something to this -- or at least there must be. Most of us drive these LPS cars, I assume, for Luxury AND Performance. The cars discussed in this forum all offer AWD one can conclude because the L and P quotient is at its/their pinnacle when one configures his/her LPS car with AWD.
The market for AWD across the board is on a growth path -- and it seems 2WD will be less and less dominant as each year passes.
Most of this, of course, is opinion -- some of it, significantly, is fact.
Drive it like you live.
#4727 of 10348 Re: AWD bias? [tayl0rd]
Nov 03, 2005 (12:43 pm)
I wasnt talking about Formula D. Drifting is controlled oversteer, you need rear drive for that. A four wheel drift is a lateral slide, neither understeer (FWD) or oversteer (RWD). Its a popular trick used by the rally twins at the track. Drifting, on the other hand, is basically a stunt. Driving like that on a race track would make you come in last place.
#4728 of 10348 Re: Sales are just a financial statement figure! [docnukem]
Nov 03, 2005 (2:40 pm)
YTD sales figures for the 5-series
525 15,422 (37.5%)
530 18,661 (45.4%)
545/550 6,691 (16.3%)
M5 367 (0.9%)
Don't have a breakdown for cars sold with the sport package but it looks like the general public opts for the 6 cylinder. However I believe the BMW owners on this forum have almost all chosen the 8 so it looks like this forum may not represent the views of your "typical" 5-series owner. IMHO
#4729 of 10348 Re: For The Record [freddybb]
Nov 03, 2005 (2:41 pm)
In my opinion your interior may not appeal to me either but I wouldn't call it ugly. More importantly than that to me being called DUDE is worse, Freddybb. Interestingly enough those that do use the term Dude probably don't mean anything by it. Guess I'm a little older tho' and the reference irks me.
#4730 of 10348 Re: For The Record [jjacura]
Nov 03, 2005 (2:48 pm)
My wife has been taking vitamin supplements.
Does that make her a zippity duda?
I can't understand that other dude hating the 5's interior.
I got the report back from my local CSI and the scrapings came back positive for burnished walnut.....
#4731 of 10348 Re: October 2005 Sales [bw45sport]
Nov 03, 2005 (2:50 pm)
Well then, trade in the M and go with the E, for example.....