Last post on Nov 25, 2013 at 11:27 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan
#4687 of 10348 Re: Avalon & Passat [cdnpinhead]
Nov 02, 2005 (8:49 pm)
The Cord does come to mind as does the first couple of Toronados (is that spelled correctly?)
The "thought" I was speaking of was of a time, before almost universal RWD when the few FWD cars were the LPS cars of the day.
Note that I do and did agree that I was NOT suggesting that I thought FWD (or RWD for that matter) was sufficient for inclusion into the LPS graduating class for 2005.
Many folks do think that RWD is always superior -- and I do understand that point of view. Yet, today, it seems like "the crowd" all offers AWD in a growing number of their models; and, for me at least, AWD is a requirement to be included in the LPS hall of fame these days.
Now, to the point about buying an American car -- well I really wanted to be able to do this, initially. But I came to the conclusion that buying an American car because it was American would yield the opposite outcome of what I wanted.
The STS, for example, isn't bad -- but it is, IMHO, completely overshadowed by its foreign competition. Competition is good for our companies. Now, if it could be demonstrated that the STS could best the Germans or the Japanese, and/or be a better value, I would say vote for the STS.
Unfortunately, I can't see supporting an inferior product for the sake of nationalism or patriotism or whatever ism that would suggest.
To me, the Cadillac STS AWD is a fine effort that is priced unrealistically. The STS is somewhat like the Phaeton.
Of course the Phaeton for $599/mo on a super subvented lease did make some sense -- the STS for $63,000+ w/AWD seems to have made the jump to ludicrous speed.
#4688 of 10348 Re: None of them [lexusguy]
Nov 02, 2005 (9:11 pm)
I don't think any interested party mistook the transaction for anything other than a hijacking, if you want my admittedly emotional response.
It's just I don't buy the argument that all the profits go back to the corporate homeland. The model doesn't work that way; too simple.
Nov 02, 2005 (9:19 pm)
Only the size and RWD keep the IS350 on my radar screen for May. AWD may be the sweet gig for some, but I'm loathe to give up my RWD. Truth be told, though the S4 Avant or A3 3.2Q may end up in the driveway, I'd greatly prefer it if the wee beasties had power to only two (rear) wheels. If I go AWD, it's a compromise on my part and no two ways.
You are correct, though, I think increasingly one must offer it in the line up to be a for-real player. I think there are exceptions (7-series?), but it is a trend, as was FWD before it.
#4690 of 10348 Re: Avalon & Passat [markcincinnati]
Nov 02, 2005 (9:44 pm)
I think until recently, it was thought that if you want to compete with BMW and Mercedes, your car has to be RWD. There's no logical reason for most Lexus cars to be RWD only, or even RWD at all. RWD really has very few benefits over an AWD car with a front-mid engine design and proper weight balance. You get the ability to hard-launch (basically moot with an AT anyway), and the ability to do tail-happy "throttle steer". How many LS430 drivers are really powersliding their cars, or stop light racing by brake-torquing? My guess: 0. Even if an AWD LS430 weighed an extra 200lbs, lost a mpg or two, and needed a few more tenths to 60, I'd buy one in a second.
#4691 of 10348 Re: Sales are just a financial statement figure! [dewey]
Nov 02, 2005 (10:17 pm)
I think you also have to take into account that not everyone is looking for a sportier car like the M or 5-Series and that the E-Class offers more choice than any other brand here in this segment. You have V6 and V8 sedans and wagons, all available with awd and then there is a diesel and the AMG variant in both sedan and wagon form. The E gets the sales by choice and by offering a car to those seeking more of a luxury experience. This is why BMW and Mercedes have co-existed for so long because they offer a similar, but different experience.
There is no point IMO to buy a 5-Series without the sports package so those who aren't interested in what they'd call a "hard" ride buy something like an A6, E-Class or Lexus GS. Ditto for the Infiniti M.
Why the E's sales are such a big mystery to most here is beyond me. How many people buying a 40-60K car are going to push them that hard, yeah I know a few 5/M guys here will, but they are a small minority. I think overall that most people who buy these cars are split between performance and ride/luxury and BMW and Mercedes cater to those two groups the best, imo. The two archrivals M and GS are building a rep for themselves slowly, but they don't offer the choice of models MB/BMW does hence their lower sales.
#4692 of 10348 Re: Perhaps Passat should be included [lexusguy]
Nov 02, 2005 (10:21 pm)
By the way, I just read C&D's review in the Dec. issue. The FWD 3.6 they tested would make short work of any 6 powered car in this class, and could run with the V8s and not be embarrased.
I just hate the most of America gets their mags before me! What did they say overall about the Passat?
#4693 of 10348 Re: Avalon [milanzippo]
Nov 02, 2005 (11:39 pm)
What country was the Avalon designed in. Also where is the Avalon manufactured?
Not sure where it was designed but I would guess Japan. The car is manufactured in Kentucky.
#4694 of 10348 Re: I'm new to this forum, but hey [hpowders]
Nov 02, 2005 (11:41 pm)
I was thinking the same thing. I saw 2 M's the other night. Never saw such ugly tail lights.
The M looked like a pimp-mobile.
Totally tasteless IMHO.
As is your comment.
Us pimps need a stylish car. Since you've identified the purpose of the car please stop buy if you'd like to do business. Remember though, as you said, you get what you pay for.
#4695 of 10348 Re: Sales are just a financial statement figure! [merc1]
Nov 03, 2005 (4:09 am)
I disagree somewhat about getting an M only with sport (yes, I know you said IMO). You can't get the AWD with the sport. As it is also a head-turner (to many, not all obviously), some may want the car only for looks (and probably interior size--it's huge next to the GS competition).
The same could be said for the 5.
#4696 of 10348 Re: Avalon [bw45sport]
Nov 03, 2005 (4:31 am)
From my understanding, the new Avalon was the 1st Toyota entirely designed in the US. The U.S. designers had to get approval from Toyota Japan to have dual exhaust on the Avalon. At first, Toyota Japan rejected the idea, but in the end, it was accepted.
Note that its a single muffler design with dual pipes. In any event, it looks pretty nice.
The Avalon is a nice BIG sedan for the $$$. Looks nice in certain colors.