Last post on May 01, 2013 at 3:12 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan
#4554 of 10338 Re: "There's no replacement for displacement. . .er, check that. . ." [lexusguy]
Oct 30, 2005 (2:46 pm)
I agree with your post and the facts, myths and truths it represents.
Where else, however, but "at the top" will diesels be able to be widely accepted which would make a dent in our consumption AND cost.
When the Audi A8 and BMW 7 with their porkiness are able to go 35 miles on a gallon of diesel, wonder what would happen to A6's, 5s and ultimately the Chrylser 300, Camry and on and on?
We need to start somewhere -- it always seems that logical, necessary and valuable technology THAT SHOULD go into the MASS of vehicles (abs, airbags, stability control system etc -- all started in the LPS and above cars at the time) must somehow be vetted by the buying public in the premium class first.
Today abs and the other expected technologies are in or at least available in the very lowest cost vehicles on the market. My 1990 or 1989 Audi had dual front airbags when the lesser vehicles were touting driver's side airbags, followed soon thereafter by optional dual front airbags followed by front and rear airbags and on and on and on.
Diesel technology could be perceived differently if it were placed in both high end and high performance cars -- for shortly thereafter the market would clammor for such technology and performance in the more pedestrian cars downstream.
LPS cars are a great place to start, don't you think?
Just a thought.
#4555 of 10338 Re: Consumer Reports latest Reliability ratings [sdiver68]
Oct 30, 2005 (3:06 pm)
Although new model forecasts are exactly that, the statistical models they use to determine residuals still make leasing companies a fortune.
I don't claim to have any great insider knowledge about the auto industry, perhaps you do, but I am familiar with leasing companies in non-automotive businesses, and they have NOT been making "fortunes" for years. And if you read the article I linked to in post #4543, it looks like the used car trade press considers it common knowledge that the leasing companies had totally over-estimated residuals for years. For that matter, when was the last time you heard of someone exercising the purchase option at the end of a lease of a premium car because the residual buyout value was understated?
And it doesn't seem to be over yet. Here's a quote from an executive of RVI Group, one of the leading providers of "residual value insurance" to leasing companies and manufacturers: ""For independent finance companies, we feel that the current residuals for most luxury vehicles are too high," he said. "That is, we feel that the economic climate in a few years will not support the residuals at which most luxury vehicles are being leased today.""
This is not to say that the new M won't prove to be a very reliable car. But let's not confuse reliability with residual values. There is only a limited relationship between the two. In fact, here is an excerpt from an interview of the President of ALG: "Sundaram also discussed brand perception, saying perceived nameplate quality and not actual quality has the strongest correlation with residuals at the brand level."
Perhaps that explains why MB's residuals stayed up longer than its reliability did....
#4556 of 10338 Re: "There's no replacement for displacement. . .er, check that. . ." [markcincinnati]
Oct 30, 2005 (5:00 pm)
From your lips. . .to someone's ears.
A proper diesel in a proper (lux) vehicle needs to be experienced to be believed and/or appreciated. It'll be a tough sell over here without a big PR effort, IMHO. The first brand to go there could be very successful in North America. Audi & BMW are in the best position, given that they already have the vehicles (in Europe). The Asians may market good diesels as well, but I've neither seen nor driven them. Mercedes & VW are already in the market, but adding more performance-oriented brands would certainly help.
All the lux features, incredible acceleration & 40 mpg. What's not to like?
#4557 of 10338 Re: Consumer Reports latest Reliability ratings [garyh1]
Oct 30, 2005 (5:33 pm)
This is not to say that the new M won't prove to be a very reliable car. But let's not confuse reliability with residual values. There is only a limited relationship between the two.
residual values for VWs tend to be high despite certain reliability issues!
#4558 of 10338 On The Other Hand
Oct 30, 2005 (5:50 pm)
And Lexus lease residuals are relatively low despite high reliability....
#4559 of 10338 Re: Wierd interaction between RL & Passport 8500 [lexusguy]
Oct 30, 2005 (5:59 pm)
Lexusguy, Thanks for the tip. I'll give the UPS a try. Readers were probably wondering about the weird discussion regarding a power surge in the home but I was relating it to a fellow who talked about his radar detector cutting out as he sent a power surge through his RL by shifting down from 5th to 3rd gear while driving 80MPH...and I think it was Doc Nukem who was concerned about the high RPMs. It's probably something most of us wouldn't do regardless of the effect it had on the radar detector.
#4560 of 10338 Re: Avon Tech M550 Tyres [msu79gt82]
Oct 30, 2005 (6:47 pm)
Has anyone used these tires on any LPS sedan? They are the highest rated Ultra High Performance All-Season tires on tirerack.com
I was hoping someone on this board had any real life experience with them.
#4561 of 10338 Re: "There's no replacement for displacement. . .er, check that. . ." [markcincinnati]
Oct 30, 2005 (8:21 pm)
You are right in that diesel has to start somewhere, but its not quite the same thing as airbags, ESP, NAV systems, etc that have started at the top and trickled down... at least not in this country. The business case for a high dollar luxury sedan that saves gas works in countries where the alternative is $150 a tank. Here though, when you combine cheap gas with a perception that diesel is inferior, it just hasnt worked.
I'm also not sure that diesel will really work in a sports car. The whole point of a car like the S2000 is the fun of a screaming 9,000 rpm redline. A TDI alternative engine would be hitting the red at 4,500 rpm, and while it may be able to keep up with the gas engine by trading horses for torque, it wont be fun.
#4562 of 10338 Re: Avon Tech M550 Tyres [msu79gt82]
Oct 30, 2005 (8:23 pm)
Cant say I have. What car in particular? Some tires that are wonderful on certain cars may not be so hot on others.