Last post on May 01, 2013 at 3:12 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan
#4341 of 10338 Mare's eat oats and Doe's eats oats. . .and anecdotes. . .
Oct 14, 2005 (8:04 am)
. . .Between my wife, a handful of company cars (all Audis) and me, we have had two dozen plus Audis, one VW Jetta, one VW Quantum, one BMW 325ix, and one American Eagle (I thought it was a quattro, I was misinformed) prior to our current 2005 A6 and X3.
Of our German cars, ONE, one time left us stranded (it was an Audi 90CS quattro and it lost its engine within the first 30 days of ownership -- it was completely fixed and until the car was rear ended a couple years later was essentially perfect after the new engine was put in it.) One other time, also in an Audi 90CS quattro sport, the power seat plug came "unplugged" while the car was at a car wash and the seat was in its most rearward position and my wife couldn't reach the pedals (and, although this is a repeat story, on a Sunday afternoon, the Audi store service manager personally came to our house -- after I drove the car home, having longer legs than my 'missus'-- and spliced the wire and put a new connector on the power seat.)
Numerous other "annoying" things have happened to our cars over the years -- every single car no matter who makes it offers manumatic transmissions that are less than pleasing (whether you call it Tip lag or Step lag or Geartronic-lag etc etc etc), I suspect the Japanese must also have some issues in this regard also.
One of the most annoying things to ever happen to an Audi I owned was in my third Audi that had the 4.2 V8, the trouble (with both my A8 and my) A6 4.2 sport brakes was they would warp between oil changes (almost literally) -- including the factory original set of rotors, my A6 4.2's (a 2000 and a 2001) went through 9 sets of rotors. Otherwise the car(s) was (were) great. The warped rotors were annoying but I never had any concern that the car's braking was substandard in terms of its ability to stop the car.
So, with my anecdotes to comfort me, I can tell you that over two dozen Audis have been (based on what my friends went through with their cars) somewhat more reliable than all the cars my "six degrees of separation" can be compared with.
This will certainly sway even the most die-hard LPS Japanese buyer to immediately abandon his/her Japanese rattle trap, eh? Not!
Said it before: I want more reliable cars, we have driven German cars since the mid 1970's -- they have hardly been flawless, but they have virtually never let us down (see exception where new engine was needed, above.) I have driven Acura's and Infinitis and I have rented the GS Lexus and probably a couple of Nissans and Toyota's here and there -- but at this point, only a German car drives like a German car (although the Infiniti M35X deserves a very honorable mention.)
This is certainly in flux, the Germans cannot rest on their laurels (but they'd probably like to do so -- wouldn't we all?) The Japanese and even the Cadillac certainly don't feel like second class citizens in this crowd -- but all the anecdotes that we all can share are unlikely to convince us to change our habits until it gets personal.
My current 2005 A6 3.2 is a blast to drive, as is my wife's 2005 X3 3.0 -- I recently drove a CTS and a G35X (and some other things that I rented) and the CTS actually felt "the most European/German" of all of them. But by the same token, I wouldn't kick the G35X outta bed for eatin' crackers either.
The Japanese are improving in the area that I (speaking for a party of one) believe they have been "not quite" the best at -- "the feel behind the wheel."
Indeed, they (and the CTS) are getting so close to the Germans that there will have to be some serious differentiation done by the engineers at Audi, BMW and Mercedes (and VW, what the heck) to maintain that "certain something."
To repeat, based on my experience (and, I suspect, my tolerances) the Germans are "as expected of a car" with respect to their reliability. And, they exceed expectations with respect to drivability.
Drive it like YOU live.
#4342 of 10338 Re: Acura RL or BMW 530xi Which One?? [hpowders]
Oct 14, 2005 (8:11 am)
Here's someone else with extensive track experience who felt the 545i and M45 were very similar overall. Not at moderate speeds, I felt the 545 was more communicative, but when you pumped up the speeds a notch on a twisty backroad, the M45 (Sport in my case) really comes into its own. I don't know if its the rear wheel steer or not, but you realize Infiniti did a brilliant job in tuning the car for serious road work, even if they still have some way to go at regular speeds. If you re-read C&D's comparo review, they stated the 5 series had some troubles on the tight, twisty Streets of Willow course where they had nothing but praise for the M45.
So, I think the difference in perception has alot to do with how hard you have drive the car, and in what circumstances.
#4343 of 10338 Re: Acura RL or BMW 530xi Which One?? [sdiver68]
Oct 14, 2005 (8:25 am)
Re the BMW in the C&D comparo -- it was under tired and it was not the "new 5" -- perhaps a retest with the 530 as it stands today (i.e., current to current) would shine a bit more positive light on the 5.
I have driven both and I like both. I am assuminb BTW that we are talking about the C&D comparo with the LPS cars tested at once (6 or 7 of them as I recall.)
True, they tested the then available cars -- but almost the moment the ink dried on the article, the latest 255HP tuned and tweaked 5 hit the showrooms.
I remember how BMW fans complained when the Audi S4 triumphed over the M3 -- the claim was foul ball, since one was new and the other was longer in the tooth.
#4344 of 10338 Re: BMW & M's [lovemyclk]
Oct 14, 2005 (8:41 am)
The M35X (naturally aspirated) at 280HP already produces 25 more HP than the 530.
One thing to note is that, although the M35 produces 25 more hp than the 530i, it also weighs about 400 lbs more. With a difference of 0.1 sec in the 0-60 (M35 at 6.3 to 530i's 6.4), there really doesn't seem to be much difference there... especially when you factor in the 3-4 mpg difference in fuel economy (M35 at 18/25 vs 530i's 21/29).
#4345 of 10338 Re: Acura RL or BMW 530xi Which One?? [markcincinnati]
Oct 14, 2005 (9:03 am)
I'm just saying there are multiple points of reference with similar comments, all 3 with track experience. Yes, I agree, a new 530i Sport may change things in the C&D comparo (but not my experience with a 545i Sport). Also, shame on BMW PR/marketing for sending a knife to a gun fight.
Competition is great, huh? Without the new A6 and M (and to a certain extent the G35), would BMW still be hoisting underpowered 225 HP 3.0's on the public? And they probably would have waited at least another year to release the 550i, in fact I think I read an insider report to that effect.
An '06 550i Sport SMG? Yummy, but at a $15K premium, though with lease subsidies and free maintenance would still be a tempting decision.
#4346 of 10338 Re: Mare's eat oats and Doe's eats oats. . .and anecdotes. . . [markcincinnati]
Oct 14, 2005 (9:21 am)
Do you mean Maresy Dotes and Dosey Dotes and Littlelamesy Divey? Wow, it's been awhile (like 100 years) since I've heard that one.
#4347 of 10338 Re: Mare's eat oats and Doe's eats oats. . .and anecdotes. . . [bartalk3]
Oct 14, 2005 (10:49 am)
Mairzy doats and dozy doats and liddle lamzy divey A kiddley divey too, wouldn't you
If the words sound queer and funny to your ear A little bit jumbled and jivey Sing, "Mares eat oats and does eat oats, and little lambs eat ivy"
And I am only a 1/2 century old!
A kiddley divey too, wouldn't you
Oct 14, 2005 (11:10 am)
"Yes, Harriet dear?"
#4349 of 10338 Re: . [wale_bate1]
Oct 14, 2005 (11:17 am)
Keep that up and you will end up calling the S4 Avant a "Station Wagon" and request exterior wood panelling!
Price Info for the Audi A3 3.2 Quattro, where did you find it?
#4350 of 10338 Re: . [wale_bate1]
Oct 14, 2005 (11:17 am)
Not to be confused with Ward and June.