Last post on May 01, 2013 at 3:12 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan
#4244 of 10338 Re: Audi a "premium" nameplate? [sdiver68]
Oct 11, 2005 (8:12 pm)
I would agree that historically in the US, Audi has been a "wannabe" player in the premium market, in the shadow of MB and BMW. I seem to recall a description in one of the Auto mag's of Audi as the "German Buick". I personally shared this perception, which was re-enforced when I test drove an A6 in both 1999 and 2001 while shopping for my last two vehicles (Volvo S80 T6, and BMW 530i). However, ultimately a superior product will stand on it's own merit, and I think Audi has finally earned bragging rights with the recent A6 and A8 models. After entering the Audi showroom with my admitted bias, I left the test drive thinking that Audi is a worthy contender in the premium LPS market. Of course, there is a variety of subjective judgements that comprise this perception, but as a life long "car guy" I am truly impressed with the progress. Kinda reminds me of how Honda and Toyota arrived as cheap little economy cars that no one initially took seriously, and now command seemingly endless respect based on the quality and value their products represent. Time will tell if Audi can maintain this momentum, and take a permanent seat at the premium table.
#4245 of 10338 Re: Pontiac, BMW and the Kidney Grille [designman]
Oct 12, 2005 (1:33 am)
"I never really cared for their kidney grille. It always reminded me of that lame mustache Hitler wore."
It reminded me of the Edsel.
#4246 of 10338 Re: Um, on the eye of the beholder. . . [lexusguy]
Oct 12, 2005 (8:52 am)
Lexusguy: Do you work in the auto industry? You seem to know more about cars and the industry than most auto writers. You could probably get a job as a Lexus consultant to advise on strategy and get their engine placements straightened out.
#4247 of 10338 BMW Arrogance!
Oct 12, 2005 (9:18 am)
People will not buy products from companies they don't know and don't like," says BMW's Freymann. "Car manufacturers from countries like China will grow from the bottom up. They may become a threat to a company like Ford, but not to us. We are not just selling a car, we are selling an image."
The above quote is from Edmunds Inside Line.
BMW is selling an image?? I thought I bought my BMW and intend to buy a future BMW based solely on drivetrain/chassis considerations! The HELL with image--I dont need to impress anybody but myself!
The proof that image itself does not sell cars is the Jaguar X. Despite the high image of a Jaguar on the hood most drivers did not want to drive a rebadged European Ford Mondeo. If Ford had provided a Jaguar X with a drivetrain/chassis combo that could beat the specs of the BMW 3 series, I can assure you Mr. Freymann would have a far more humble opinion about BMW Image.
This kind of BMW arrogance provokes a lot of hostility. If you want to observe this hostility in action then go the the new Lexus IS250/350 forum. For every one sentence about the IS there are about 3 sentences on how crappy and unreliable BMW are!
#4248 of 10338 Re: Um, on the eye of the beholder. . . [bartalk3]
Oct 12, 2005 (9:20 am)
Bartalk3...I would agree....and also between Lexusguy, Merc, and MarkCincy you collectively have your industry strategist, analyst, and diplomat package right here in edmunds LPS city!
#4249 of 10338 Re: Um, on the eye of the beholder. . . [jjacura]
Oct 12, 2005 (9:33 am)
If you crossed all three of them, you'd have a guy driving an MB with an ultra-premium after-market sound system wearing a bemused look...
#4250 of 10338 Re: Audi a "premium" nameplate? [dan339g]
Oct 12, 2005 (9:36 am)
I would agree that Audi has come a long way.
I have had first hand experience with it. My first Audi was a new Fox purchased in '75. At the time, it offered FWD and fuel injection and was one of the few cars that ran on regular leaded fuel and met EPA standards. It had also garnered a high rating from CR, but that was not a factor in my buying decision. I had a foreshadowing of my long term relationship with the car when I picked it up from the dealership and discovered that the horn, gas gauge and windshield wipers did not work. This was after receiving a piece of paper stating that the car had been carefully checked by technician and was certified for delivery! Not even an apology from the salesperson or dealership! Fortunately, I went over the car before signing the final papers so those repairs were done on the dealership's time. The Fox never got over its need for long term bonding with the dealership. I had numerous problems with the car throughout my ownership period (8 years), the worst of which was its love for consuming a quart of oil every 1000 miles. Audi claimed this was normal operation which was reinforced right up through the ranks to the US Audi Corporate folks. Of course, toward the end of my ownership interval, I was reimbursed by VW for the cost of 2 valve jobs to replace valve guide seals. Apparently this was a widespread problem that VW had and never formally acknowledged with the Dasher (Passat) and Audi Fox. It also didn't help that customer focus was a completely foreign concept to Audi dealerships. Their service advisors were the lords and customers the "unwashed" masses. But when the Fox was running, it was a hoot to drive........
In subsequent years, Audi learned a hard lesson about customer focus with the "unintended acceleration" debacle, i.e., it almost cost them the business in the US.
Such owner experiences tend to have long memories in the minds of the buying public (as seen by this posting!). I believe (my opinion) that this is historical baggage that Audi is still working to overcome.
Time warping ahead to 2005...... I was in the market for a AWD luxury sedan. My short list narrowed down to 2 vehicles - Audi A6 & Infiniti M35x. In the end, the Infiniti was the winner from 4 perspectives: better ergonomics, better value for the dollar, better predicted reliability and better dealership customer focus.
#4251 of 10338 Re: Pontiac, BMW and the Kidney Grille [designman]
Oct 12, 2005 (9:40 am)
It always reminded me of that lame mustache Hitler wore
Maybe BMW shoud re-design their grilles to look like FDR's chin!
#4252 of 10338 Re: Pontiac, BMW and the Kidney Grille [dewey]
Oct 12, 2005 (9:44 am)
Then they would be copying the Subaru B9 Tribeca...
Oct 12, 2005 (9:57 am)
"I thought I bought my BMW and intend to buy a future BMW based solely on drivetrain/chassis considerations!"