Last post on Nov 25, 2013 at 11:27 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan
Jan 05, 2005 (12:09 am)
Always amazed that BMW comes up as the benchmark. I felt it was a little tight in the shoulders. My 2001 A6 (2.7T w/6speed) is a much more comfortable ride. Goes fast (very fast), fun to drive, etc.
I guess if all cars are compared to their potential - autobahn speeds with competent drivers on crowded highways - then I suppose one car could stand out. As it is the opportunity to push these cars to the point where there may be a real discriminator, or for that matter, a driver skilled enough to push these cars to their limit, are both very rare commodities.
Even at an above-the-speed-limit 80-90 mph that many of us would like to be able to drive the differences are too imperceptible to measure.
I'm considering trading the Audi this spring. Absolutely believe the quattro puts Audi at the top of the class. Now I have to look at the Acura RL. Acura's re-sale may be worth consideration though in this category cost/price is not the first concern.
Unlikely I will ever go BMW. Styling has taken a turn for the worse. I have always believed BMW to be over-rated. I've known more than one person who had to own a BMW - never driven one - but it was the thing to do. Reminds me of a story I saw in TV a few weeks back. Do you all remember the British TV show from the 60s - "The Saint." Turns out producers wanted Roger Moore to drive a flashy sports car and the new Jaguar model wasn't available. They actually bought - at full price - the new Volvo sports coupe. Demand out paced the ability to produce. Product placement will do wonders and all those pseudo James Bonds out there have convinced themselves they have to have a BMW. Once they reach they have to keep telling themselves they made the right choice.
#355 of 10348 Re: [jrock65]
Jan 05, 2005 (4:53 am)
The journalists say the 5 series is the benchmark. They say if you want value go to the RL, although I'm not really sure what that means.
The RL deserves to be car of the year, it's a fresh new design, but that's probably where it's gonna end.
"BMW 5 series was, and is the benchmark, as much as it hurts those who try to justify their budgetary constraints, by comparing lesser pretenders with the class-leader."
LOL...n1. Thought that would get a reaction.
Jan 05, 2005 (6:29 am)
No, they arent saying that. You are.
"M45's 0.90 skidpad performance validates this, setting a new Road & Track best for a production sedan."
"And its 65.4 mph slalom speed is among the fastest for a luxury 4-door, bested only by more expensive hot rods like the Audi RS-6, BMW M5, and Mercedes-Benz C55.
Behold the new benchmark bimmers. Its that little upstart Nissan, and its car, beats yours. Sorry. Oh, and R&T's price as tested? $49,999. Try getting a 545i with ANYTHING inside for that.
Jan 05, 2005 (7:58 am)
With BMW's 5 series getting the worst reliability rating from CR, sounds like the benchmark from hell.
Jan 05, 2005 (11:53 am)
Skidpad means nothing, it's like saying the weight of the steak has any bearing on the quality.
But it's interesting to see the same old reaction when a supposed BMW beater comes around.
hpowders - who look at reliability when buying a car? I don't. Even though the Toyota I bought has some issues in CR I still got car. Not worried. People who buy BMWs as well know their cars aren't falling apart and are not going to leave them stranded. Black circles is not a reason not to get a car, otherwise the manufacturers would not sell one of them that CR purports to be unreliable.
#359 of 10348 Re: [kdshapiro]
Jan 05, 2005 (12:15 pm)
Well then you are one of those rare individuals who don't factor in reliability concerns in determining their next car lease or purchase. I, however, believe it is one of many things a prudent potential buyer should be considering. And I am far from being alone-Lexus sales are going through the roof-not because of styling innovations.
Jan 05, 2005 (12:23 pm)
What's more interesting is the same old reaction from BMW fanatics when another car gets good reviews.
You still harping on the skidpad numbers? Geez
Face it, the 5 has not been received with universal praise. Many people and reviewers are underimpressed with the styling inside and out (I personally LIKE the exterior styling), poor ergonomics of the i-drive, and reliability history. It has received consistant praise for its handling, but handling alone does not make a car great.
"who look at reliability when buying a car? I don't."
Actually, I don't know a single person other than you who doesn't look into the reliability history when buying a car.
On the other hand, I wouldn't say that the M has set the benchmark in this class. It remains to be seen.
Jan 05, 2005 (12:24 pm)
Infiniti has been harrying BMW with their G, and RT and CD sure loved the M45, especially with RT blazing to 60 in 5.3s, that too with an automatic tranny. RT felt that this harrying would continue with the new M. Let's see how things work out for these cars.
Jan 05, 2005 (5:14 pm)
to me (I actually buy cars, as opposed to leasing) and very few others, reliability is irrelevant to most drivers in this segment.
For a variety of reasons, most lease. Some would say it's to drive a car that isn't otherwise affordable. Others point to business-related writeoffs. In any event, many cars needn't last past the warranty to satisfy -- the initial driver dumps it before (or as) the warranty runs out.
There are precious few people in these boards discussing the pleasure of driving 150K miles in the same dependable vehicle. Holding up my lantern, I continue to search. . .
Then, to add to the joy, I will only own a car (for personal use, my wife thinks otherwise) with a manual transmission and rear-wheel drive. This is a near non-existant demographic -- sports/luxury with reliability, RWD and a manual transmission. Infiniti is about it. BMW works if you drop the dependability/reliability bit. . .which I'm reluctant to do.