Last post on May 01, 2013 at 3:12 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan
#3352 of 10338 Re: No insecurity [rich545]
Aug 03, 2005 (10:44 am)
Sorry if you took my comments about MB "bashing" when in reality I used to love MB. I had a 1985 300E, 1987 420 SEL, 1989 300D, and a 1991 300E. All were excellent vehicles, almost problem free.
What I was referring to was what my friend, who is the GM at a MB dealership on the west coast of Florida commented on. He told me he has been taking back more and more cars on lemon law complaints.
As for the ML series, I was not referring to that line, but the sedans. My brother leased a new 05 600 SEL, and had to take it back after 3 months of having it in the shop more than in his garage. My dad had a 2005 E320, and had to activate his lemon law rights after MB could not correct problems with his navigation system and his engine's refusal to stop stalling on hot days.
Reliability has been an issue with MB, as with BMW, and many non Japanese models, however what keeps people buying them? Style, status, maybe. In my case, it's handling and comfort. We all have our reasons which are different. Resale value, for me, has also been a big issue - and BMW's hold their value almost as well as the luxury Japanese makes.
Again, my apologies for sounding like I was "bashing MB". Quite the contrary, I wish their build quality would improve so I could again consider MB as a vehicle of choice for me.
#3353 of 10338 Re: No insecurity [janssen]
Aug 03, 2005 (10:47 am)
You are correct in your comments based on the way my post was written. What I meant to say is: these journalists have a very tough job. I for one do not buy cars the way they rate them. I could care less about cup holders. So putting a specific vehicle on the bottom of the list because of lousy cup holders doesn't relate to the way I think.
Specific measurements back up by specific observations to the specific measurements work best for me and I can relate to them, but then come to my own conclusions. When it comes to car shopping I take the road less traveled. The mags and statistics purveyors have zero influence on my purchase decisions. I make very heavy use of first hand experiences with cars and dealers. That strategy has served me very well in general.
#3354 of 10338 Re: No insecurity [kdshapiro]
Aug 03, 2005 (11:00 am)
Ah, an independent thinker!
Good post. I agree with part of what you say, but I will admit I read some of the press first. Mostly, I use it to see what weaknesses or strengths others find, to allow me to ask myself intelligent questions. Then I can decide if the reports are even true, then whether they are important to me at all. Better cupholders or better road-holding? Easy to prioritize that one!
Then a lot of road testing, reading forums like this and asking questions, and prioritizing what is most important to me after my research is done.
I think that last step, as you described well, is the most important. Until the day there is a perfect car, a car with everything for everybody, the step you described would be the best way to find the perfect car for you.
#3355 of 10338 Re: No insecurity [hihomike]
Aug 03, 2005 (11:04 am)
I actually wasn't specifically responding to you; just the general disdane many on this board seem to have for MB. As with anything else, our own experiences tend to dictate how we feel about things. My wife had tons of trouble with her first ML, the second was better, and I've read that MB put a lot of money into addressing quality concerns specifically regarding the plants in the US where the ML's are built. Anyway, why do people continue to buy MB and BMW (and Audi for that matter)? Just the back-and-forth discussion here answers that question. For lots of reasons. I take issue with people assuming that we buy them for status alone. While there are some people that know nothing about cars that I'm sure buy them for that I would say that most here do not, and no one I know that's smart enough to make enough cabbage to afford these cars goes into buying them thinking about the way others will perceive them. They just honestly like how the cars drive and they like the creature comforts they provide. The fact is, if you really have "status" you don't need a car to confirm it. A truly confident person doesn't need to be boastful. It's the people that are insecure that have to prove it to themselves that are boastful and would buy cars to help them deal with their insecurities. As I said before though, what came first, the chicken or the egg? Do people buy MB and BMW because they feel like they have more status with them or do other people that don't have the cars "give" them that status that they may desire? Speaking for myself, when I pull up next to a nice car I would say, "Hot car" to myself and leave it at that. I don't know the person driving the car at all so who am I to judge them one way or the other? I honestly don't even think about the driver or why they may have bought the car.
#3356 of 10338 Re: No insecurity [janssen]
Aug 03, 2005 (11:13 am)
For Pete's sake, let's not bring facts into this discussion. What fun would that be?
#3357 of 10338 Re: Decisions, decisions ... [hpowders]
Aug 03, 2005 (11:15 am)
You have been undecided for quite a while now. What's your current favorite?
I really want to like the RL, I've had a great relationship with my dealer and very positive experieces with the MDX (and my old TL-S was OK as well). Overall I'm happy with the exterior and liked the interior at first. However the longer I sit in the interior the more it gnaws on me Also the RL has a few "missing" features that are important to me, most notably a rear-view camera. Also due to quality issues with the '05 I have pretty much decided against an '05. I may wait until the '06 RL is out however.
I first began searching "seriously" in March (obviously not in a hurry) and had almost made up my mind for the RL, but I felt it was overpriced (it did not posses that "best-bang-for-the-buck" feel that the MDX and TL-S had). Funny how research and test drives can change one's opinion. Discovered the M35 in late March and was not all that impressed at first. However unlike the RL the M has continued to grow on me. If I were to buy now it would be the M35.
I bought a loaded '04 FX35 last September and was unwilling to take the trade-in beating I was getting back in March. The RL was over-priced then and Infiniti wasn't budging much either. Since then the trade-gap between my FX and the LPS is getting more acceptable. By the way there is nothing wrong with my FX; I would rather be in an LPS
#3358 of 10338 Re: No insecurity [rich545]
Aug 03, 2005 (11:17 am)
Here in the SF Bay area there are SO many BMW's and Mercedes. I felt like I wanted to join that exclusive club...
Right on about status.
One other thing-given the decades-long development and advancement of the BMW chassis (the one I am familiar with) to achieve the best possible mix of handling and ride, how many people really try to push these cars, to get that thrill of driving through corners, of accelerating out of one turn, braking into the next, and then ripping through it with the throttle...woohoo!
But I think most like the look, and the name, and the accomplishment of being part of that club. That is what allows some of these dealers and/or companies to coast a bit, or be less than responsive to customers. No specific brands. It could happen to any company that gets successful and fat.
As to your last comment, if I see a discordant appearance, like a 25-year old driving a 750 il (last weekend), I do think something about that person. Usually something like jealousy/rich parents/trust fund...you get the picture!
#3359 of 10338 Re: Decisions, decisions ... [msu79gt82]
Aug 03, 2005 (11:21 am)
I saw an RL on the highway Monday. Looked nice. I do believe you can get a good deal on this particular vehicle.
#3360 of 10338 Re: No insecurity [janssen]
Aug 03, 2005 (11:23 am)
Maybe this forum should be called the Performance Luxury Sedans instead of Luxury Performance Sedans.
BTW I do appreciate the quality of your posts on this board as I do a number of others.
#3361 of 10338 Re: No insecurity [janssen]
Aug 03, 2005 (11:26 am)