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Luxury Performance Sedans

10338 messages,  Last post on May 01, 2013 at 3:12 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum.

What is this discussion about? Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan

Messages Page 329 of 1034

#3280 of 10338 Re: No insecurity [janssen] by hpowders

Aug 02, 2005 (6:40 pm)

Replying to: janssen (Aug 02, 2005 6:31 pm)
I admit it is a curse. When you drive the "Ultimate Driving Machine" since 1993, you get totally spoiled. I want to like other cars. I have tried. I drove the M35, M45, GS300 and GS430. While each had a few good points, I still feel that BMW balance and driveability are the best. I do agree that if BMW's reliability keeps slipping and/or I have quite a few problems with my 545i, then even I would switch to an Infiniti or a Lexus. I may like BMW, but I am not on their payroll.
I got my limits too! And I have a very short fuse for poor quality control!
Amazing how dealers are different. Mine let me take a 330i, 545i and X5 for test drives all by myself for as long as I wanted. I am a long term customer there. Each time I came into the dealership for my next test drive, he tossed the car's keys at me. I guess he knew I was a "sure thing."

#3281 of 10338 Re: No insecurity [hpowders] by janssen

Aug 02, 2005 (6:46 pm)

Replying to: hpowders (Aug 02, 2005 6:40 pm)
That motto is marketing. I know you are smart enough to know it is just branding.
 
Ferraris drive better, have better styling, are more distinctive, sound and feel better, and are certainly faster .They hold their resale value much better. So we should probably both agree that the BMW motto is cute, but not entirely accurate.
 
And can you say without hesitation that you would rather drive to the limit with a BMW than a Porsche GT2, or Carrera 4S? That would be a tough choice for many people.
 
Of course, there are not many people who would sacrifice that much for the 'ultimate' driving experience of these $200K to $500K cars.
 
So perhaps we could weigh all the pros and cons, since no car is perfect.

#3282 of 10338 Re: No insecurity [janssen] by kdshapiro

Aug 02, 2005 (6:51 pm)

Replying to: janssen (Aug 02, 2005 6:46 pm)
"Ferraris drive better, have better styling, are more distinctive, sound and feel better, and are certainly faster "
 
And they are in the shop every other day and cost 10 times what a 545 cost.
 
"And can you say without hesitation that you would rather drive to the limit with a BMW than a Porsche GT2, or Carrera 4S?"
 
You are comparing cars in two different financial and market segments. If you have $60K to spend and a family to haul around, my choice is the 545. If you have 200K to spend, sure a GT2 is a nice touch, as you probably have a family hauler already in the garage.
 
"Heavy? Beat the BMW in several road test slaloms, and when it lost it just barely lost. So the BMW must be heavy. Artificial steering? Have you read all the complaints about BMW's active steering? My 2003 is better than the 2005."
 
Slalom means nothing. The G35 beat out the new 2006, just barely in a number of performance measures according to a recent magazine comparo. Yet the BMW beat the G35 on the track. HP means nothing and slalom means nothing in terms of how the car really handles. I haven't driven the E60 with active steering so I can't comment, but what I've read and talked to people about, everybody who drives it who is not a journalist, get's used to it. More than gets used to it, wonders how one ever did without it.
 
I'm not an end-all, be-all BMW supporter, but the sales figures don't lie. They are doing something right. Regardless of their standing by CR and the rags, the public is buying. The old expression, you can fool some of the people...etc. BMW/Mercedes can't be fooling everybody at the same time, there has to be a reason people are buying them over the "so-called" top rated vehicles.

#3283 of 10338 Re: No insecurity [janssen] by hpowders

Aug 02, 2005 (7:01 pm)

Replying to: janssen (Aug 02, 2005 6:46 pm)
Well, unfortunately this thread is limited to the cars listed at the very top-cars in the 50-60k range that fit the criteria for luxury performance sedans.
Yes, I would certainly choose a Porsche Carrera or 911 if money was no object. But alas....
Like I said, I'm not on BMW's payroll. They had better get their reliability house in order because I will not stand for quality control headaches from a 60k vehicle as much as I like the driveability of their vehicles.

#3284 of 10338 "Litetime" branders by msu79gt82

Aug 02, 2005 (7:13 pm)

I know older folks who have owned nothing but a Cadillac for years. Folks on this forum claim to own nothing but Audi's or BMW's (e.g.) for years. Great, good for you and each to his own. But to me all such "branders" have such a loyalty bias as to be virtually useless to the undecieded. Those of us who are undecided do not want to read another BMW commercial, we want real world opinions. I value the opinions of those who have owned a Cadillac, then a Lexus, then a MB, etc. (BTW the chosen cars are to make a point only). I usually ignore the written BMW and Audi commercial advertisements.

#3285 of 10338 Re: No insecurity [kdshapiro] by syswei

Aug 02, 2005 (7:15 pm)

Replying to: kdshapiro (Aug 02, 2005 6:51 pm)
the sales figures don't lie. They are doing something right. Regardless of their standing by CR and the rags, the public is buying. The old expression, you can fool some of the people...etc. BMW/Mercedes can't be fooling everybody at the same time, there has to be a reason people are buying them over the "so-called" top rated vehicles.
 
IMHO, you're fooling yourself if you think that image and prestige have nothing to do with MB and BMW unit sales vs Infiniti.

#3286 of 10338 Re: image [syswei] by msu79gt82

Aug 02, 2005 (7:23 pm)

Replying to: syswei (Aug 02, 2005 7:15 pm)
IMHO, you're fooling yourself if you think that image and prestige have nothing to do with MB and BMW unit sales vs Infiniti.
 
I think image and prestige are a major factor in MB and BMW sales. It must be; their reliablity is horrible and their interior styling is hideous I had the privilege of attending a BMW Grand Opening Event a few weeks ago. I for one like the new Bangle exteriors but the interiors are disgusting! One could not pay me to own one of these vehicles - but that is just my opinion and I am not into status symbols. But that is how status symbols work, as long as others can see you driving down the street with the "correct" badge, exterior appearance and name are all that matter.

#3287 of 10338 Re: No insecurity [syswei] by kdshapiro

Aug 02, 2005 (7:39 pm)

Replying to: syswei (Aug 02, 2005 7:15 pm)
"IMHO, you're fooling yourself if you think that image and prestige have nothing to do with MB and BMW unit sales vs Infiniti."
 
I understand it's your opinion. I think you've fooled yourself into believing people see no intrinsic value in German cars other than to spend to money. Maybe it's true within your circle. Maybe it's also true that people buy Lexus products because they believe no one will notice they just spend a bundle of money on a rebadged Toyota that has ho-hum styling with interiors that drive me up a wall.
 
To each their own, I'm glad we all have choices.

#3288 of 10338 Re: No insecurity [kdshapiro] by frisconick

Aug 02, 2005 (7:45 pm)

Replying to: kdshapiro (Aug 02, 2005 7:39 pm)
German cars are clearly inferior to Toyota's no doubt, and even more inferior to Lexus, Acura and Ifiniti. Why spend a fortune on car when it's always in the shop.

#3289 of 10338 Re: No insecurity [frisconick] by kdshapiro

Aug 02, 2005 (7:52 pm)

Replying to: frisconick (Aug 02, 2005 7:45 pm)
Aw cmon. Enough with the generalizations. I was recently at Toyota and in the service bay was a new Avalon with leaky water and smell problems. Try telling that owner of a new $38K car it's a superior vehicle. You ought to spend a few hours in a Toyota or Lexus dealership listening to the service advisors, it might open your eyes.

Messages Page 329 of 1034

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