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9978 messages,  Last post on Nov 02, 2009 at 1:30 PM

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What is this discussion about? Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan

#2287 of 9978 Re: merc1 [markcincinnati] by jjacura May 19, 2005 (6:35 pm)
Replying to: markcincinnati (May 19, 2005 1:09 pm) "Say it ain't so. "    ...and some of us leave our biases behind...gulp...
#2288 of 9978 Re: cmybimmergo [lexusguy] by bartalk3 May 19, 2005 (6:36 pm)
Replying to: lexusguy (May 19, 2005 6:25 pm) I agree CR is useful for some things, less useful for others. For high-end hobby equipment, for example, stereo equipment, cameras, camcorders, etc. CR is less useful.   The reason is their audience is mainstream middle-class families with youngish kids, not people who want to buy $2,000 digital cameras, $3,000 camcorders, or $5,000 loudspeakers, etc. Replies to this message: cmybimmergo (May 19, 2005 7:08 pm) ksoman (May 20, 2005 7:51 am) jjacura (May 20, 2005 2:11 pm)
#2289 of 9978 bartalk3 by lexusguy May 19, 2005 (6:54 pm)
"For high-end hobby equipment, for example, stereo equipment, cameras, camcorders, etc. CR is less useful."   I would say pretty much useLESS. Just a single score with little to no information is no way to shop for things like digital cameras, especially when there are so many different factors that weigh more with different people. CNET is very useful for entry to mid-level electronics. Beyond that, you have to go to the pros.
#2290 of 9978 Re: cmybimmergo [bartalk3] [lexusguy] by cmybimmergo May 19, 2005 (7:08 pm)
Replying to: bartalk3 (May 19, 2005 6:36 pm) The reason is their audience is mainstream middle-class families with youngish kids, not people who want to buy $2,000 digital cameras, $3,000 camcorders, or $5,000 loudspeakers, etc.   Exactly. Hence the bias. But I agree that it's like anything else...you take out of it what is useful to you, and disregard the rest.
#2291 of 9978 CR by syswei May 19, 2005 (7:21 pm)
Bias? Maybe that's the right word, or maybe not. CR like any person or publication have certain criteria that they go by, which may not align with a particular reader's. They may feel that safety and reliability are relatively important while some readers may place greater importance on style and handling. No one is right or wrong, people just assign different weights to various factors. But at least, since they don't accept advertising at CR, their opinions on various products can be assumed to be free of commercial influence.
#2292 of 9978 Re: JD Power [bartalk3] by markcincinnati May 20, 2005 (7:05 am)
Replying to: bartalk3 (May 19, 2005 2:22 pm) I am not a Consumer Reports expert. I would consult them on some things and I might even check out their FOR automotive ratings -- if I didn't have to buy the magazine.   If CR actually has a bias against things that cost more, well that would be a strike against them. I would hope they have a bias for things (e.g., cars) and their relative value.   To bring this back to LPS cars, my personal "value" bias was (past tense) such that I could not find cars that were of higher value than Audis. Of course my narrow (yes I admit it) qualifiers included that whatever I was looking at automotive must be AWD (so the field was certainly narrowed.)   But as I have stated, I priced an Audi A6 4.2 sport and found it within a few dollars of a 6 cylinder 5 series (and the Audi had a lower lease price and full maintenance -- which at the time the BMW did not). For the life of me -- at THAT time -- I could not understand why anyone would take a 6 cylinder RWD BMW when for slightly less money they could have an 8 cylinder AWD Audi of approximately similar dimensions. Please note I said, in effect, "that was then, this is now." Audi, and perhaps others, has "lost that lovin' feelin'" insofar as the value proposition is concerned.   CR may have thought -- then and/or now -- that the Audis were unreliable and would be "in the shop" a lot. Frankly that didn't happen to me and CR saying that such and such a car was in the bottom 25% of automotive reliability didn't alter my perception of value one bit.   Now, today, we have several excellent AWD LPS cars from which to choose. Audi, in my opinion, let its recent publicity go to its head, so to speak. Their temporary status as "Best Car in the World" has caused them from what I can tell to sharply increase the cost of ownership of their vehicles. With all the great and wonderful competition out there, the rapid run up in this aspect of Audi ownership forced folks like me to look elsewhere to vet the value proposition.   Some people stayed the course, some went to BMW, Lexus or to Infiniti (which is what I did). CR is a resource. For me it is an incidental resource when it comes to automobiles -- I hope they look for value not just automatically begin to lean more negative (pertaining to cars) as the price goes up as if to say "no car is worth -- fill in the blank."   Anyway the current crop of cars offers consumers the best and most choice I can remember in some 35+ years of driving. If CR withered away, I wouldn't even notice, at this point.
#2293 of 9978 Re: cmybimmergo [bartalk3] by ksoman May 20, 2005 (7:51 am)
Replying to: bartalk3 (May 19, 2005 6:36 pm) right, my definitive speakers were never in the CR review... Replies to this message: jjacura (May 20, 2005 2:11 pm)
#2294 of 9978 Re: CR by msu79gt82 May 20, 2005 (8:37 am)
I am a long time subscriber of CR and find them a useful opinion. Are they biased? Of course. We ALL have our biases, worldviews, presuppositions, etc. We all wear colored glasses (rose or whatever) to view the world with! I agree with the many posters who have pointed out that CR is biased towards "practicality" for the middle-class.   HOWEVER, I believe that bias is manifested in what they choose to test and not so much in the reported results of the test. CR is known for ranking products from top to bottom based on results and not on price. Only when products tie in quality/results does CR use price for a tie-breaker; and of course CR is well-known for their "Best Picks," but more often than not the so-called "Best Pick" is NOT the best or rated #1 - often a "Best Pick" is in the upper third of the rankings and available at an especially good price relative to the others.   Specific to vehicles, CR always ranks from hightest score to lowest score independant of price and makes "Recommendations" based on performance, safety, anmd reliability. I can NOT recall when CR has ever "Recommended" a vehicle based on price. Please refer to the Issue, where CR has ever made a vehicle recommendation based on price alone. Replies to this message: hpowders (May 20, 2005 9:07 am) kdshapiro (May 20, 2005 10:35 am)
#2295 of 9978 Re: CR [msu79gt82] by hpowders May 20, 2005 (9:07 am)
Replying to: msu79gt82 (May 20, 2005 8:37 am) Yup. CR is definitely biased towards value for the middle class consumer. Especially evident when they review luxury cars and SUV's. They always state that there are cheaper alternatives which are as good as the expensive vehicles under review. Replies to this message: kdshapiro (May 20, 2005 10:35 am)
#2296 of 9978 Re: CR [hpowders] by kdshapiro May 20, 2005 (10:35 am)
Replying to: hpowders (May 20, 2005 9:07 am) You are right. The best example is when CR printed the loaded Accord was the better alternative for $7K less than the Acura. Of course, the Acura folk took exception and said they accrue $7K worth of luxury and amenities.   I guess the value proposition is only useful when comparing German vs. Japanese.

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