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Sedans Luxury Performance Sedans
9978 messages, Last post on Nov 02, 2009 at 1:30 PM
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Replying to: bartalk3 (May 18, 2005 5:44 pm) The first 90 days of ownership applies to the J. D. Power Initial Quality Survey, NOT the Reliability Survey. Agree with you on the Consumers Union (Consumers Report) reliability data. Martin |
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The Initial Quality Survey (IQS) is mostly about fit and finish. Is everything put together right, aligned, and rattle free initially? There are occasional complaints in the first 90 days about more serious issues, but its mostly about fit and finish. The Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS) on the other hand is about the reliability of 3 year old vehicles. This is about how well vehicles hold up over the course of a typical lease. Both surveys give good information that rivals CR, but if you confuse the two surveys all you get is garbage. Some people should not use information without adult supervision. Enjoy, cybersol
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Replying to: cybersol (May 18, 2005 8:58 pm) Some people should not use this information at all. Lies, damn lies, and statistics. |
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Okay, let's break this down a bit.... First of all, JD Power (and CR) deserve credit for bringing quality to the forefront. No question about that. But JD Power is also a profit center, pure and simple. Although it pretends to be an independent group of researchers in white lab coats, their revenue comes from selling its logo and rankings to companies who choose to use it in their marketing/advertising. Their methodology can change yearly to fit their agenda to sell their name and present themselves as quality "experts." McGraw Hill's recent acquisition of JD Power was purely designed to maximize M-H's bottom line revenues. CR is slightly more pure since they accept no advertising or sell their name. But they certainly have their political and profit-driven agenda. IMO, neither is a true non-profit, and both are driven to maximize revenues. Thre's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but you have to filter their results with those realities in mind. Interesting that JDP's #1 ranking entry luxury car is the long-in-the-tooth IS300/Sportcross. Sales for the 2005 IS300 are down -50%, and this entry level model currently represents only 4% of total Lexus sales for 2005. It's been bit of a dog for Lexus, and the new model is at least 2 years late. The Lexus website still shows the Sportcross, but I think it's next to impossible to find one today, since they have basically bombed in the marketplace. I don't deny their stellar quality, but it's interesting to me to see JD Power wave a huge quality award for a car that has basically been ignored by the market for 1-2 years, and is on its deathbed. Makes you also wonder if their quality rankings are truly apples to apples, given the huge differences in sales volume within the models listed. Their # 2 ranking car is the X-Type, and volumes have already been written about this car's problems. Makes me question JD Powers' credibility and methodology. I also think it's loopy to rank factories based on these quality ratings. To slam a factory for poor quality, because they happen to build a poorly designed car, is disingenous and puts the blame in the wrong place. Is it really relevant to give factory A a gold medal, factory B a silver, etc., based on problems reported in the first 90 days of ownership by people who bothered to participate in a survey, or attend an evening focus group in exchange for a free dinner? These rankings always have some element of "garbage in, garbage out."
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Replying to: cstiles (May 19, 2005 7:44 am) CR, on the other hand, IS truly independent. They are not dependent on pleasing any manufacturers. Their revenue comes from reader subscriptions, not from the companies whose products they test. They do make money (which pays their employees, pays for their research facilities, and finances their publications), but they are as non-profit as you can get, i.e., their primary purpose is not to make money but to evaluate products and report their results to the public. They've been doing that since 1936. Their politcal agenda, if they have one, is consumer protection. In a world of advertising hype and rampant conflicts of interest, they are about as trustworthy as you can get.
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Replying to: bartalk3 (May 19, 2005 8:05 am) I'm not criticizing them....they are what they are. They are best when they are testing and ranking washing machines. But lately they have flexed their muscle into political issues that run the risk of diluting their strengths. It's the old paradigm of wanting to get larger, more influential, and more successful, but there's a price to be paid in going there. And, they ranked the BMW 5-series so highly, so they MUST be a little bit nuts (just kidding)..... |
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Replying to: cdnpinhead (May 18, 2005 3:46 pm) go here: http://www.jdpower.com/cc/auto/index.jsp then click "press releases" on the left and then type in "dependability" in the search box. Note that some years ago they changed from 5-year to 3-year timeframes. another nice feature is to click on "automobile ratings" in the second column (instead of "press releases")
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Replying to: syswei (May 19, 2005 12:16 pm) Interesting stuff. Looks like my Lincoln may last until I'm tired of it. |
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Replying to: cstiles (May 19, 2005 11:43 am) |
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Replying to: cmybimmergo (May 19, 2005 12:39 pm) |
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