- #2217 of 10007
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Re: Handling: 3 vs 5 [hpowders]
by rich545
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May 16, 2005 (10:06 am)
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Replying to: hpowders (May 16, 2005 8:56 am)
Actually, I do need numbers. Sometimes what we feel isn't the most accurate. As I said, I had a 330xi before it and I feel like the 545 is significantly more confident in curves. As others have said, the 325i with sport may handle better than the 330xi. I have driven the 325 non-sport as well as a loaner car and certianly didn't feel that it handled better. But there you have it, I didn't FEEL like it handled better. That could be due to the fact that the E60 has more advanced stability control. It may NOT mean that it handles better though. Basically, what I'm getting at is that we all feel things differently. I want numbers so I can rule out individual perception. Another thing to consider though is should we even EXPECT the 5 to handle better? It's basically designed to handle better than its peers. The 325 and 330 are not its peers.
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- #2218 of 10007
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Re: Handling: 3 vs 5 [rich545]
by hpowders
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May 16, 2005 (10:23 am)
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Replying to: rich545 (May 16, 2005 10:06 am)
"Sometimes what we feel isn't the most accurate."
I dunno. I think feel is everything. Numbers are sterile. You may get to the 711 1.5 seconds faster than me. But I do believe I will have more fun getting there.
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- #2219 of 10007
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Re: Handling: 3 vs 5 [hpowders]
by rich545
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May 16, 2005 (11:06 am)
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Replying to: hpowders (May 16, 2005 10:23 am)
I agree that feel is everything if you are deciding what car you want to buy. Hell, you'll be sitting in it so you better like it. The question I'm posing though is does one car actually out-handle the other? For that answer feel is irrelevant. In the most simple terms, does the 325i get around a turn with greater ability to hold the road than the 545i assuming the drivers are equal? I don't know the answer and maybe it's impossible to determine. If for you the 325 is more fun to drive more power to you. I have no problem with that. I think that the 545 is an infinitely more fun car than my 330xi was. I'm sure this discussion is boring everyone to tears anyway so I'll just look around on my own to find out what the answer is because it's just interesting to me on a purely intellectual level. Both are great cars in their own right.
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- #2220 of 10007
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Car & Driver 3 vs. 5
by cstiles
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May 16, 2005 (11:47 am)
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Car & Driver archives reveal the following....
2004 330i with performance pkg pulled .86g on the skidpad, and needed 158 feet to stop from 70 mph. This car had 225/40ZR/18 front and 255/35ZR/18 rear Michelin Pilot Sport tires.
2004 530i with sports package pulled .90g on the skidpad, and needed 167 feet to stop from 70 mph. This car had 245/40WR/18 Dunlop runflat tires.
They also show a March 2005 test of a 530i w/o sports package that pulled just .82 g,and needed 176 feet to stop from 70mph.
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- #2221 of 10007
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Re: Car & Driver 3 vs. 5 [cstiles]
by rich545
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May 16, 2005 (12:05 pm)
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Replying to: cstiles (May 16, 2005 11:47 am)
Yup, and the 2004 545i stopped in 156 ft 0-70. They don't give skidpad numbers for the 545 that I can find though.
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- #2222 of 10007
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Re: Car & Driver 3 vs. 5 [rich545]
by rich545
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May 16, 2005 (12:10 pm)
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Replying to: rich545 (May 16, 2005 12:05 pm)
Sorry, I meant 70-0. One of the reasons I'm saying that the 325i might not handle better though it is smaller is the E60 has active roll stabilization whereas the previous generation 3 did not (I don't know about the new design).
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- #2223 of 10007
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Re: Guessing. . . [markcincinnati]
by marleybarr
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May 16, 2005 (12:57 pm)
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Replying to: markcincinnati (May 16, 2005 7:01 am)
In today's Minneapolis paper:
2005 A6 3.2 , $553.00/mo. plus tax. 36 month lease
MSRP $48,870.
Downpayment of $5,178 plus taxes, title fees, unspecified dealer fees.
Purchase option at lease end: $27,367
Includes: Premium, convenience,parktronic,18" wheels,cold weather,freight.
$350.00 disposition fee at lease ending.
.25/mile over 10,000 miles per year.
Is this the "smart money" over Infiniti?
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- #2224 of 10007
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RL Handling
by cstiles
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May 16, 2005 (1:00 pm)
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The comparatively nose-heavy RL pulled a very respectable .87g on the skidpad, shod with very middlin' Michelin Pilot MXM4 tires. A slight upgrade to Michelin Pilot A/S tires, or even summer tires, and this car will easily hit .88 or .89g.
Not bad for FWD architecture.
The M45 Sport got into the low .90's with active rear steering, tighter suspension tuning, and beefy tires. Not sure what the M35x did, but likely in the .84 to .86 range?
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- #2225 of 10007
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Re: RL Handling [cstiles]
by kyfdx HOST
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May 16, 2005 (1:03 pm)
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Replying to: cstiles (May 16, 2005 1:00 pm)
With the right tires and a little suspension tweaking, you can get .90+ out of almost any car..
The key is: How does it feel, and how easy is it to duplicate in real-world situations?
In the '80s, Renault got a higher skid pad number out of the Alliance GTA than GM could get with a Corvette.. That didn't make the Alliance a better handling car than a Vette..
regards,
kyfdx
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- #2226 of 10007
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Re: RL Handling [kyfdx]
by rich545
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May 16, 2005 (1:26 pm)
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Replying to: kyfdx (May 16, 2005 1:03 pm)
So now the key is how it feels. I see. Isn't feel a subjective thing? I "felt" that the 545 was a better handling car than the 325. Hpowders "felt" that the 325 was. Which means that "feel" changes based on the person. The only non-biased way to look at handling is through hard numbers. The fact is, the E60 regardless of how you "feel" handles at least as well if not better than the 325 which apparently wasn't supposed to be possible given the rules of physics. Even the writers at Car & Driver that wrote the article with the stats on the 530 were impressed that it could pull .90 on a skid pad (they even said "Hell, the Porche Boxter pulls .93). The 545 has even wider rear tires so it would probably do even better. We're taking about a nearly 4,000 lb. car that handles better than most cars that weigh 500 lbs less. At least give BMW it's due for achieving that.
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