Last post on Nov 25, 2013 at 11:27 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan
#2128 of 10348 Re: Mercedes cant hack it [kdshapiro]
May 10, 2005 (10:28 am)
It is not just "people" here complaining... it is more about very miserable "owners" who continue to see what a poor company Mercedes is to deal with. I am the President of a fairly large company that deals with people and issues all of the time. From the service manager that always says it is my fault (only to be reversed when proven wrong), to the regional manager who only says "talk to the service manager" to the regional corporate manager that only says "talk to the service manager"(keep in mind it was the service manager who has been wrong each time) I have never seen such a poor example of customer service in a company.
From that miserable fight I have to get into with every breakdown I then start to investigate what the heck I am dealing with and get to a site such as this. I have no reason whatsoever to badmouth Mercedes except that my 2004 E320 has been a $54,000 piece of junk.
I too know many satisfied Mercedes owners. I live in the part of the country with the highest saturation of Mercedes in the U.S. That still has nothing to do with the quality that is catching up to them.
The point you miss is the growing number of complaints and the statistically significant decline in their ratings from what I guess are generally accepted ratings groups.
I do not even mind that I have problems since it was my choice to buy a "new platform" car in the first year. It is the disgusting attitude by Mercedes USA, the Massapequa NY dealer, and the Mercedes Corporate Sales Manager... all who obviously do not care about a severe customer problem with their car quality that has convinced me that another experience like this is not for me.
I don't have a clue yet as to what my next car will be in a couple more months but I do know what it will not be. I would love to trade in my lease for an SLK after a great experience with my E320 as they look nice and I would like a new toy again. It would be cheaper since Mercedes would give me a discount for being "loyal". It would be cheaper because I would not be charged for excess mileage. It would be easier to get the "dings" covered in the lease turn in to Mercedes. I have no axe to grind BUT I will not be so dumb as to go through dealing with these attitudes for the next three years again.
Mercedes obviously doesn't need me or care if I am a customer .I will oblige them in their desire to get rid of me.
#2129 of 10348 Re: Mercedes cant hack it [mercedesstinks]
May 10, 2005 (11:02 am)
My reason for saying that "most people" wouldn't put Mercedes into their top 3 was that the people I deal with -- customers, vendors and staff members at my company -- think that Mercedes USED to be at the top. My guess is they currently put BMW at #1 and probably Lexus as #2 -- I could be wrong, but I don't think most would put Mercedes as #3.
OK, even if I am wrong and they would put Mercedes on a list of "top ten" cars at some number above 6, I do think that is solely because they think that Mercedes are "out of touch" with the market. Now the new ML and some others may rapidly turn this around -- unless the quality issues (there are no secrets) keep them below "bronze."
I have no bad Mercedes experiences to relate -- my recent spate of test drives did include Mercedes and I was impressed with the "C" class (C320) very much. Of course back to back drives of the A4 3.2, the BMW 330xi and the C320 4Matic made me able to comment that these three cars come from "the same country."
Mercedes is, IMO, better looking than BMW -- but does not often get mentioned in the same breath as BMW (even Audi at least gets an honorable mention when German car lust is the subject du jour.)
The horrible tale told by merdedesstinks certainly doesn't help my positive outlook on Mercedes. But, frankly, it probably would not make me stay away, if there were a Mercedes that I was interested in.
Listen, I'm still new to all of this -- my M35X has not yet come in, my wife's X3 is 4 or 5 days old and I'm still wondering if I will regret getting the M35X (because I have never thought the Japanese car companies were passionate about building driver's cars -- and with only test drives under my belt at this point, the leap of faith I took in ordering an Infiniti was largely due to edmunds posters and the positive reviews of the car.)
Mercedes is "off the top 3 list" of the folks I know, for the time being.
Your milage may differ.
#2130 of 10348 Re: Mercedes cant hack it [markcincinnati]
May 10, 2005 (12:17 pm)
It's interesting that you say that because of people I know that own BMW's Mercedes would definitely be #2. Audi would be third to some with Lexus a possibility. I will say that at least Infiniti have generated enthusiasm with the new M. I can't ever recall hearing anyone I know saying they can't wait to test out a new Infiniti or Lexus for that matter. They may have liked them once they did test drive them, but they didn't go out to test drive all jacked up about either brand. The M seems to have changed that a bit. But I'd say that most people I know (and they are not by any means status seekers) would still choose a Mercedes over anything Japan has to offer. Is it the mystique (which may be fading somewhat)? Probably has something to do with it. It would be interesting to take 10 random people, line up the BMW 545, Mercedes E500, Infiniti M45 and Lexus GS430, and ask them which they'd prefer without driving them. That's when I think the BMW or Mercedes badge would come most into play.
#2131 of 10348 Re: Mercedes cant hack it [kdshapiro]
May 10, 2005 (12:21 pm)
While people here have complained about Mercedes quality, I know people who have had great success with very high and medium end recent models.
Of course you know people who have had great success with recent models. When studies indicate that 30 percent of the people who purchased the '01 C-Class experienced significant electrical problems in their first year of ownership, that means 70 percent did not. My simple math would determine that slightly more than 2 out of every 3 people would say that they've had no problems.
The important question to ask, I believe, is whether a company such as Mercedes should be proud to have produced a model that had a THIRTY PERCENT rate of significant problems in its first year. If you think about it as a consumer do you really think problem rates that high are acceptable?
I've used the C-Class as an example but the problems run across the entire line of products Mercedes is producing. If you doubt it, look at the recent releases of the '03 E-Class and '03 SL-Class.
#2132 of 10348 Re: Road and Track Comparo [nmdriver]
May 10, 2005 (3:17 pm)
I believe Car and Driver already did a comparison on the 6 cyl. Check out their website.
May 10, 2005 (6:33 pm)
"I'm still wondering if I will regret getting the M35X (because I have never thought the Japanese car companies were passionate about building driver's cars -- and with only test drives under my belt at this point, the leap of faith I took in ordering an Infiniti was largely due to edmunds posters and the positive reviews of the car.)"
This again? I've said this before. Japan can and does build some REALLY hot performance cars. But because of various reasons through out the years (emmisions, the cost of adapting for left-hand drive, etc) they've generally always decided to not bring them here, and thus most of America has never heard of them. Thanks largely to Gran Turismo and a really gutsy move by Subaru, that finally is changing. Still, much like how BMW doesnt offer the M3 CSL in this market, Japan still keeps its best stuff at home.
Examples, Honda's NSX Type-R, Nissan's Skyline GT-R V-Spec II Nur, Honda's S2000 Type V (which actually introduced an "active steering" system back in 2000 called "variable gear-ratio steering" or VGS. According to Honda, theirs was the first application of its kind). While we have the WRX STi and EVO MR, Japan has dozens of much hotter versions that have never made our shores. The same goes for the MX-5 Miata, RX-7, and RX-8. Other than the Supra and a few Celicas here and there, Toyota generally doesnt play in the same league when it comes to drivers cars as Honda, Nissan, Mazda and Subaru (obviously), but Toyota will actually be the first to really take on M3, C55, and RS4 with an IS500 rumored to have somewhere around 400hp. The car does exist and has been caught testing. I dont expect anything in this league from Acura, but I think Infiniti will try and come up with something to counter the IS500, and Germany had better watch out when they do.
By the way, I was just listing regular production cars. If you live in Japan and those models arent good enough, there are special Nismo, Spoon, and Blitz versions of most of them that take things to a new level of crazy. The Blitz Skyline GT-R puts out 850hp 9300rpm and 709ft.lbs 7500rpm. 0-60 comes in 3 seconds, and its top speed is 213mph.
May 10, 2005 (6:42 pm)
"Japan has dozens of much hotter versions that have never made our shores"
And probably never will due to emissions regulations. If it were easy there would be a plethora of 2 or 2.5 liter turbo engines. All ponying up 400+ hp.
#2135 of 10348 Re:The M35X [markcincinnati]
May 10, 2005 (8:32 pm)
Mark, I think you made a good decision albeit a very difficult one. Hang in there. JJ
#2136 of 10348 lexusguy
May 10, 2005 (8:39 pm)
Pretty wild speculation about an IS500 don't you think. A 5L V8 in a IS model? First time I've heard of that. I really wouldn't wait on such a model.
Most of those models you mention that aren't sold here really don't have anything to do with the luxury scene, they're just extensions of the tuner movement already present, except for the NSX which is dead. One the AMG/M/RS level that Japanese are just flat. Sure they have a lot of reach for the sky screamers, but they're hardly in the luxury class.
Do you think the next Skyline will be badged as an Infiniti or Nissan?
#2137 of 10348 Re: Road and Track Comparo [kster]
May 10, 2005 (8:58 pm)
"I believe Car and Driver already did a comparison on the 6 cyl. Check out their website."
Actually, C&D did a mixed comparison which included both 6's and 8's. They set a price cap of $55K. So they ended up with five 8's (A6, M, GS, STS and Jag S-type, and three 6's (530, RL and E350).
The price cap may have been a little arbitrary. As is usual with this sort of test, the cars were not all comparably equipped, and the base (no options) GS 430 came in a few dollars more expensive than the price cap. However, the point remains that Mercedes and BMW are more expensive than the other cars in this category -- hence the 6's.