Last post on May 01, 2013 at 3:12 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan
#2036 of 10338 Re: M bitchin' [richcream]
May 05, 2005 (4:38 pm)
Heh,heh. You're a regular riot, richcream.
Well I've had 2 325i's since 1993 and neither has been in the shop except for regular maintenance.
I would not take a chance on the 5 series, however. I think there's a lot of bad news there.
Let me tell ya, there is no other car I would rather be driving in a torrential downpour than a BMW 3 series. It takes curves like it is glued to the road. I don't know the physics of it. I just drive 'em and admire 'em.
Funny about that left foot thing because otherwise, there was enough legroom in the M. Maybe I was leaning too far left in the seat to try and get away from the seemingly desperate, aggressive, obnoxious salesguy. What some of us have to endure for a lousy 10 minute test drive!
#2037 of 10338 Re: M bitchin' [richcream]
May 05, 2005 (4:41 pm)
Renowned BMW reliability, I'm sure, has had you in the shop on at least a few occasioins.
Yeah, renowned BMW reliability has had mine in the shop also on a few occasions.
Five times in over three years (including scheduled maintenance) to be exact.
#2038 of 10338 Re: M bitchin' [kdshapiro]
May 05, 2005 (4:46 pm)
Yup. I have had 2 325i's since 1993 and the only time I had to bring them in was once a year for regular maintenance except in 2000 I had to bring my 1993 325i in for a new set of tires; not after only 2 weeks like some guy had to do with his brand new M for a rear blowout. Oh my!
To avoid the censor's wrath, I have tried the 545 but nothing except probably a Porsche handles as well as the 3 series. It's just the perfect marriage of size and physics.
#2039 of 10338 Re: Anyone have April sales figures? Update +Audi [markcincinnati]
May 05, 2005 (4:53 pm)
>>Or one more thousand to have the car come with AWD and keep the high performance All Season tires on year round.
I agree totally. Especially if you live in an area that doesn't get all that much snow, or don't have a place to store snow tires.
#2040 of 10338 Re: M bitchin' [richcream]
May 05, 2005 (4:56 pm)
We get the afternoon summer storms and you get the cold and the snow.
I can play golf all year round.
Tell me it's not hot and humid where you live in the summer.
Down here AWD is unheard of. No M35's down here have it.
#2041 of 10338 Re: nmdriver [lexusguy]
May 05, 2005 (5:05 pm)
"If you really like the Subies,stick with them."
I intend to keep the Subies. The question is whether I will, as in the past, also buy a more expensive car for touring. I used the Subies as examples because that is what I had on hand for back-to-back comparison drives over the same test route. I cannot be the first person to ask the question: "How much better are the $40 to $50 K cars than those a tier or two down?"
You asked what about the G35 and A4? I drove the G35x before I bought the Legacy GT. The G35 simply does not have enough cargo capacity for our long distance travel, but based on the magazine reviews it was the first thing I looked at to replace my WRX. However, the AWD version is available only with auto. (A big minus.) And, I found the drop throttle oversteer scary. I took my foot off the accelerator rounding a gentle curve at 60mph on a smooth, dry road and the rear just let go! I drove SCCA rallies in my youth, and caught it instinctively -- but the car rocked on its suspension. It was not tidy. Where is the stability control? Had my wife been driving, or if it had been a wet road, it would have been really scary. CR said that it got similar behavior from its (auto) Legacy GT. We have tried hard to replicate this on our manual car so we would know what to expect. But all I have ever gotten is a nice, easily controlled 4 wheel drift on an icy road. Yes, the GT does not have electronic stability control, but the full time AWD is amazingly effective. It never has those momentary delays and adjustments that so many of the "switch to AWD after the wheels start to slip" systems have.
A4? Performance, ride and dynamics not as good as the GT (with its tire upgrade) as a sports sedan. Too small for a touring car.
My question remains: it seems to me that the manufacturers are really closing the dynamic gap between the $30,000 cars and the $50,000 cars. They are throwing more and more electronics into the more expensive cars to justify the price difference, but I am not convinced that this makes the driving experience that much better -- or that much safer.
#2042 of 10338 Re: nmdriver [nmdriver]
May 05, 2005 (5:46 pm)
I'm guessing that you're going to have to wait awhile (or two) to get a serious answer to your question.
There's way more yuppie-scum status-seeking ladder-climbing going on than most are willing to talk about. The BMW of the '80's brought this into sharp focus, but it continues today, much to the delight of the manufacturers -- the margins are thinner on the lower-price units.
I'm always looking for comparisons that help me find what I'm looking for, and I walk the talk. I actually bought a Lincoln LS five years ago because it handled well, came with a manual transmission, and had a few luxury touches. It would have had more if the manual were available with the V8, but. . .
Anyway, I'll be interested in hearing from those who respond to your very provocative question.
#2043 of 10338 Re: nmdriver [nmdriver]
May 05, 2005 (6:01 pm)
In a 180 degree swing I happen to agree with you. To me nothing matches the overall fullfillment of a sports sedan as the 330. However, after driving a ton of cars recently, the one that caught my eye was the Forester XT. It's no BMW, but for $15K less with the premium package including the $2K rebate, it sure is a value leader. Subaru has figured out how to out value the other Japanese value leaders.
Luxury wise it's not in the same class as these other cars. But a silky smooth engine and shifter, AWD, LSD, turbo, and very neutral handling characteristics makes it a compelling argument. And for those who make decisions by the book - looking at CR, JDP, IIHS and NHTSA one finds there are no blemishes to be had for the vehicle or the manufacturer.
It's not a grand tourer, but the seats are very comfortable. I now understand why some people are passionate about these cars. If you can live without some electronics and luxo items it's a fine car for some that will almost beat a Porsche Cayenne turbo to 60.
#2044 of 10338 Re: nebraskaguy [rich545]
May 05, 2005 (6:04 pm)
Agree on RWD not that bad in snow. I have a 97 528 manual transmission with traction control. I have driven it up hill with nearly bald tires simply by letting the TC help and by very lightly working the throttle. Have had the same experience living in Denver with a very light Mercury Capri 4-banger and with Pontiacs and FWD Audis. I think that many people who have trouble in snow try to drive as if they were on dry pavement. Stomping on the gas or brakes won't get it done. Key is to KEEP MOVING, even if 1 mph, feather the gas, etc. As long as the snow isn't over about 5", I am usually OK. After that, no doubt, AWD a must.
#2045 of 10338 Re: nmdriver [kdshapiro]
May 05, 2005 (7:02 pm)
kdshapiro- the 330 is a great car. I hope they start to think about bringing the diesel over to the States so that we can have the BMW fit, feel and finish along with great gas mileage.
nmdriver- My wife and I are both 6' tall and we found the Subaru too narrow and cramped feeling. The last time we looked at them was 6/2003 and maybe we need to look again but have they grown in width? I had an 86 Subaru GL 4 door back when I was enlisted and it was a blast to drive on dirt roads. I wanted my wife to buy the Forrester but it was just too narrow so we ended up with the Pacifica instead. I really regret it now especially with the low resale of the Pacifica. Gas mileage isn't that good either for both vehicles.
Just my thoughts