Last post on Nov 25, 2013 at 11:27 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan
#1767 of 10348 Re: BMW [warthog]
Apr 22, 2005 (4:19 am)
You know what, you're right I'm thinking about the previousx2 5-Series the 1989-1995 model not the 1997-2003 model, yep the two you mention did have the same style of interior, but that 7-Series was first to market so thats why it sticks out to me. I remember the previous 5-Series coming to market in spring of 1996 as a 1997 model. I'm thinking about the 535i from the late eighties.
Your post only confirms why I think a lot of folks don't like the new interiors. Even from the 1989 to the 1997 5 the interiors didn't change radically. They had the same bare, cockpit style layout which everyone got so used too. This is one reason why I think the new 5 causes so much shock. Combine this with the urge to really notice the interior materials (since the cockpit feeling is gone) and bam you have folks not liking BMW's new design motif. The 7-Series was basically the same theme from 1988 and 1995, only it got plusher to me.
I personally don't have a problem with it as it still to my eye looks very plain and BMW like though everything is more upright and straight. To me it still looks like a old-school BMW especially around the climate controls and the other few switches left. They just took out the driver focused angling of the dash/ upper center console imo.
I've always found Mercedes and Audi interiors to be far better looking than BMWs.
Apr 22, 2005 (4:49 am)
"I've always found Mercedes and Audi interiors to be far better looking than BMWs."
We're definitely in agreement there. Audi didnt impress me much in the early '90s, but by the time the previous gen A6 was introduced, they had the best of the bunch.
#1769 of 10348 Re: Infiniti 4wd system [mariner7]
Apr 22, 2005 (6:15 am)
The Audi system can "transfer" up to 50% of the power to the front or rear?
The Audi system STARTS at 50% f 50% r power distribution and via an instant acting (not virtually, not electronically but mechanically instant) Torque Sensing (TORSEN) AWD set up can send additional power to the front or rear depending on where the most traction is.
For purposes of this explanation, I am speaking specifically of the TORSEN quattro set up, not the Haldex quattro set up. However, the quattro intent is to shift more or less power forward or backward regardless of the technology used. The TORSEN system (today) is nominally a 50-50 set up. Upcoming TORSEN set ups will be nominally 40% f 60% r biased (basically to remove the issue of not being an RWD biased AWD system from the discussion).
Depending on the model (and application), the quattro system will send up to 75% of the power to the front or rear based on traction.
According to Audis own literature, the ability to pinpoint a single wheel that can benefit from additional torque is also part of the system: "[Under normal conditions] power is split 50/50 front to rear. But in extreme cases up to 67% of the engine's power can be directed to a single wheel. The benefits to the driver are safety, performance, power, and control in copious amounts."
The Canadian Driver piece is not entirely accurate in its declaration of toque split and torque shift in a Torsen equipped set up such as the A4. The new A4 could actually send 2/3 of the power of the engine to the front left or the rear right for that matter. The most the Infiniti system can do is send 50% forward -- not that that should ever be insufficient. The Torsen system simply can send another 17% forward should it be necessary to do so.
#1770 of 10348 refresh your minds,drive a Five Hundred or a Freestyle
Apr 22, 2005 (6:16 am)
All this BMW,Lexus,Jag,MB talk drives me nuts.I've owned them thank God and the UAW I have owned 39 new vehicles of all makes and models.Go down to your Ford store drive these two and tell me where the 30 grand difference is?Better yet buy 2 of them and put $10,000 in your new SS account.
Buy American.........cause you are one!
#1771 of 10348 Re: refresh your minds,drive a Five Hundred or a Freestyle [mrlizzzard]
Apr 22, 2005 (6:26 am)
I looked at the Five Hundred AWD. I liked the body, the size, and the AWD. I didn't like the performance figures (from the small engine size with CVT). The car would also look nicer if they took the grille from the Fusion and stuck it on the 500. But you are missing the point. This is a luxury performance sedan board. The Cadillac STS (and to some extent the CTS) ARE discussed here. If I had liked the angular cuts in the STS body, I would have seriously considered it, as Cadillac has changed their stodgy image.
Remember also that Jag and MB have American connections, now, too.
#1772 of 10348 Re: refresh your minds,drive a Five Hundred or a Freestyle [mrlizzzard]
Apr 22, 2005 (6:32 am)
Firstly, not everyone here is American. Secondly, why should "we" support inferior products simply because we hail from the country that makes them? That may be a very nice set up for our car manufacturers, but it does nothing to help them make better products. Think about it, if they make crap cars (and in my opinion most American cars are crap), but we buy them anyway simply because we're "'merican" what incentive do Ford or GM have to make better cars? My father will only buy American and to answer your question, yes I do believe that my 545 is worth $40K more than it. Since we've been talking about cheap materials let's expand that to include American cars which use the cheapest material that I can think of. The leather feels like pleather, the knobs on the dash feel like they'll fall of in your hand anytime you use them and the designs at least to me are for the most part atrocious. The goal of American car manufacturers seems to be to figure out how to transfer our family room sofa into a moving vehicle. The only exceptions I see are the new Mustang, the 500 that you mentioned (though the grill REALLY bugs me, and SOME Cadillacs. So until we learn to engineer better cars, I won't be buying one. If that makes me less patriotic in your mind so be it. Sorry, but I just hate it when people say things like "Buy American.....cause you are one."
#1773 of 10348 Re: refresh your minds,drive a Five Hundred or a Freestyle [mrlizzzard]
Apr 22, 2005 (6:34 am)
thank God and the UAW
What? IMHO the domestic auto industry would be in better shape now if the UAW didn't exist. In recent decades all they've done is make American auto labor uncompetitive. I'm not against buying from a US or Canadian factory, but frankly the stuff out of the non-union US or Canadian factories is a better value (for what you're getting) and generally better quality too.
#1775 of 10348 Cadillac's incomprehensible pricing scheme. . .
Apr 22, 2005 (6:40 am)
The new STS cannot be had with a sport set up and come in under $60,000. Even Audi only charges $1250 for the sport package (and one would presume $1000 of that is for the wheels which can be purchased minus the sport suspension for that price).
The STS too cannot be had with AWD for any price less than $62,000 -- even BMW and Mercedes (using MSRP as my guide) can beat this.
The new Ford and Mercury cars with AWD are mostly impressive -- but when you can get a Chrsler 300C AWD with every possible option for just north of $42 or $43,000 why would you consider the STS and for the extra performance why would you accept the anemic Ford products (this anemia being the main impediment to their success).
Insofar as considering the Ford 500 as a competitor in this class, even with a 50% boost in power, well, it isn't likely to happen in my lifetime unless some major sea change happens within Ford.
I don't believe the 500 is even meant to rival the "usual 8 suspects" in this class.
Long before the 500 would be an entrant, the 300C AWD would have to at least be up for "honorable mention."
One thing I do agree on, though, if the difference is $30,000 between a Ford 500 AWD and the Mercedes or BMW or Audi or Infiniti, etc -- well I think our new poster does have a point (where is the $30,000 difference). There certainly is a difference -- and the difference probably justifies a 5 figure premium for the 500's "rivals" (in mrlizzad's opinion). But I dunno if that new Audi A6 is worth $30,000 more than the 500; but, if true, that is the "market's" tolerance apparently since most of these Premo cars are selling at least "OK."
While we're at it, we could probably include the new Passat at $37,000 as a contender, too (at least for the CTS customer's dollars).