Last post on Nov 25, 2013 at 11:27 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan
#1721 of 10348 Re: M interior's [rich545]
Apr 20, 2005 (10:02 am)
"The funny thing about this dashboard discussion is that if you look at the 5 series dash next to the M dash they actually look very similar. In fact, I'd go so far to say that Infiniti had the 5 dash in mind when they designed the dash for the M."
When I first read that, I thought you were crazy, but the more I look at the both of them side by side, I kind of see your point, especially with the 3-dials in the lower center console theme contained in both.
5: http://us.autos1.yimg.com/img.autos.yahoo.com/ag/bmw_5series_525isedan_2005_interior_19_34- 6x270.jpg
I'd say that Infiniti absolutely considered the 5 when designing the M (as the 5 was their target) and they absolutely did a better job.
Aside from the blandness, the outdated temp dials, iDrive, and the lack of compartment space in the 5 series, I found the steering wheel to be an issue as well.
It leans leftward (towards the door) and it seemed that no matter how I adjusted it, the wheel either obscured a good part of the instrument panel, and/or the view just above the dash.
In any case you can compare the 2 interior layouts posted above and decide for yourself. Personally, I like the black/rosewood combo in the M better than the aluminum, but I still think the M's AL layout makes the 5's look, as previously stated, 'underwhelming at best.'
Oh, and iDrive is not too hard to get the hang of, it's just more trouble than it's worth. The 5's interior could use a few more buttons anyway.
#1723 of 10348 thanks for your service.....
Apr 20, 2005 (2:52 pm)
Not a problem.
I like these forums ">since I can learn from you guys what I don't know and discuss things that have nothing to do with my present work. Escape from reality really. Thank Gore for the Internet.
#1725 of 10348 Re: M interior's [richcream]
Apr 20, 2005 (5:53 pm)
You make valid points about the 5 serious interior being bland---I see it as old fashion and dated--
That said, the point I was trying to make was regarding material quality, details, tightnes, craftmenship etc (I'm new to this car lingo stuff) bear with my descriptions---
In summary, even the 5's dash is intuitivly solid and well built albiet bland--conversly in my opinion the M's was intuitivly not near as well put together as the others--In my opinion you sense it 30 secs after setting in it--additionally the doors didn't feel or close like Audi's or Lexus---
I say all this with full acknowlegement that the M is an attractive car with great performace and value for the $$
#1726 of 10348 Re: M interior's [richcream]
Apr 20, 2005 (6:04 pm)
I agree in pictures the M's trumps the 5's easy--additionally I agree that the 5's is bland-----
However setting in them, feeling them, and simply "kicking the tires" and you can't deny the quality difference--The 5's (I'm not a BMW fan / never had one) is 3 notches up from the M--I won't even compare the Audi and Lexus
The M is like a fancy looking, elaborate, flashy, looks good in pictures CASIO stero
The others are like a tight, high quality, exspensive, well made Pioneer reciever
Apr 20, 2005 (6:40 pm)
Excellent post! Although there are certainly some exceptions to your observations, I totally agree with your overall assessments in comparing and contrasting Japanese, European, and American approaches to chassis tuning, vehicle design, powertrain engineering, and general philosophy. Thanks for sharing with us your insights as an engineer yourself.
#1728 of 10348 Lean Production...
Apr 20, 2005 (7:49 pm)
Only someone trained in "lean" would understand the distinction between the American equation (price=cost+profit) and the Japanese equation (profit=price-cost). Believe you juxtaposed the two
Regarding warranty costs, if you're repairing after it leaves the line, it's a little late for a "zero defects" strategy. Lean attempts to solve problems before the product is released to the consumer, hence the lower warranty costs absorbed by the typical Japanese mfgr. (Toyota's TPS is the benchmark methodology). Idea is to "build in quality" into the production process.
Toyota execs will tell you that a prime corporate strength is problem-solving...
#1729 of 10348 5-Series Quality...
Apr 20, 2005 (9:46 pm)
I have driven the new E60 5-Series many times. I don' t mind the iDrive or the design, but I think that it has the lowest quality materials in its class, besides the new STS.
The 5-Series and Infiniti-M quality are not even comparable IMO. The Infiniti has a much better feel in almost every aspect of the interior. I test drove the car yesterday, again. The 5-Series is stark and totally out-dated looking. The lower 2/3'rds of the cars interior feels like cheap plastic.
The M35/M45 interior is getting very close to Lexus and Audi quality IMO.
The E39 had a better quality interior than the E60 IMO. Infiniti has stepped up their game quite a bit.
Apr 20, 2005 (10:50 pm)
The LS430 has an excellent interior. The LS has always been very nice, but the '05, much like the ES330 and SC430, are the last examples of the "old school" of Lexus interior design themes. The '04 RX started a major change, but it is the GS and IS that really set things in motion. When you compare the '04 RX to the originial '98 design, its like night and day, where as the change from the LS400 to LS430 was more of just an evolution. The '07 car should be a radical step foward though. It will take the GS and IS design theme to the next level, and will most likely be the most amazing interior in Lexus history.