Last post on May 01, 2013 at 3:12 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan
#1713 of 10338 roof strength
Apr 20, 2005 (5:22 am)
I question whether Audirules' figures came from a reputable source.
Below are some data from the reputable Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. Rollover deaths (per million registered years):
lexus rx - 0
mercedes e - 0
mercedes s - 0
bmw 5 - 4
acura mdx - 6
bmw 3 - 8
bmw z3 - 12
bmw x5 - 15
acura tl - 15
infiniti g20 - 15
The full data are here: http://www.iihs.org/srpdfs/sr4003.pdf
Many models (and entire brands, like Audi) are not represented, apparently because IIHS only included models (1999-2002) with at least 120k registered vehicle years.
#1714 of 10338 Re: M interior's [richcream]
Apr 20, 2005 (5:58 am)
The funny thing about this dashboard discussion is that if you look at the 5 series dash next to the M dash they actually look very similar. In fact, I'd go so far to say that Infiniti had the 5 dash in mind when they designed the dash for the M. By the way, the dash mounted cup holders work just fine for me. Cheezy numbered dials? You'd really rather have digital readouts? To each their own I guess. Man, BMW takes heat for iDrive because everyone mistakenly thinks you have to use it to adjust the AC and heat. Now the dials aren't good enough either?
Apr 20, 2005 (7:39 am)
There's really not much of a point in arguing these kinds of stats. The SC430 set JD Power records for highest IQ ever. VW, on the other hand, ranks with Hummer and Land Rover for worst in the industry. I doubt Mr. "Infiniti salesman" audirules will care about any of that though. Some people have just made up their minds that Japanese cars suck and will refuse to even consider that some might be good, no matter the evidence.
#1716 of 10338 Re: I can not relate.... [audirules]
Apr 20, 2005 (7:58 am)
Concerning the strength of vehicle roofs:
Based on information I have been reading about Ford Explorer lawsuits (I'm no expert on this subject), the U.S. Government rules on roof strength are that the roof must support one and one-half times the vehicles weight in a static test. (The vehicle is gently set on its roof.)
The Explorer was at something less that 2x in some past models and Ford has apparently lost lawsuits because the roof was considered too weak. Based on what I read it appears that roofs must be able to support over 1.5x the vehicle's weight, (6,000 lbs for a 4,000 lb. vehicle) and that it would be much better if the roof supported significantly more than 2x the vehicles weight.
#1717 of 10338 Re: roof strength [syswei]
Apr 20, 2005 (8:45 am)
These rollover figures are interesting and more important for driver safety than Audirules comparisons of withstanding drop dead weight to the roof of any car. His point doesn't mean much unless we are concerned about buildings dropping on us, and maybe [commofficer] in Iraq would be about the only one worried about that.) More importantly for us I think is....Buckle Up!
#1718 of 10338 Them there "Asian" companies...
Apr 20, 2005 (10:05 am)
First of all,Capt Phil - thanks for your service.
Being an automotive engineer and having worked in both supplier and OE capacities, including Ford 2000, DB takeover of Chrysler, etc., I have learned the following:
American companies design vehicles for the shareholders. First and foremost is sales price - vehicle cost = profit. This takes more of a short term approach in both profit and vehicle cost (warranty costs, recalls, etc.). Tell an American company engineer that something doesn't work properly, and they say "we can't afford to change it".
"Asian" (c'mon..Japanese) companies design vehicles based on customer satisfaction with slow change. Vehicle price = cost + profit. This takes more of a long term approach in both profit and vehicle cost (warranty costs, recalls, etc.). Tell a Japanese company engineer that something doesn't work properly, and they apologize as well as quite possibly work to improve it.
German companies design cars to please German engineers. Admittedly, I do not know their pricing strategy or approach to change. But, tell a German engineer that something does not work properly and the response is either "you are wrong" or "we need smarter buyers". Can you say I-Drive?
Thats a big difference, but each has their intended purpose.
German chassis are definitely better built for performance. Thats food if you commute through Deal's Gap every morning. Japanese vehicles give far superior total vehicle creature comfort satisfaction including ergonomics, simple to use gadgets, and NVH. US vehicles have horsepower and excellent exhaust tuning. Pick your pleasure.
#1719 of 10338 can anyone tell me something about a 2000-2001 s type jaguar 4.0
Apr 20, 2005 (10:11 am)
#1721 of 10338 Re: M interior's [rich545]
Apr 20, 2005 (11:02 am)
"The funny thing about this dashboard discussion is that if you look at the 5 series dash next to the M dash they actually look very similar. In fact, I'd go so far to say that Infiniti had the 5 dash in mind when they designed the dash for the M."
When I first read that, I thought you were crazy, but the more I look at the both of them side by side, I kind of see your point, especially with the 3-dials in the lower center console theme contained in both.
5: http://us.autos1.yimg.com/img.autos.yahoo.com/ag/bmw_5series_525isedan_2005_interior_19_34- 6x270.jpg
I'd say that Infiniti absolutely considered the 5 when designing the M (as the 5 was their target) and they absolutely did a better job.
Aside from the blandness, the outdated temp dials, iDrive, and the lack of compartment space in the 5 series, I found the steering wheel to be an issue as well.
It leans leftward (towards the door) and it seemed that no matter how I adjusted it, the wheel either obscured a good part of the instrument panel, and/or the view just above the dash.
In any case you can compare the 2 interior layouts posted above and decide for yourself. Personally, I like the black/rosewood combo in the M better than the aluminum, but I still think the M's AL layout makes the 5's look, as previously stated, 'underwhelming at best.'
Oh, and iDrive is not too hard to get the hang of, it's just more trouble than it's worth. The 5's interior could use a few more buttons anyway.