Last post on Nov 25, 2013 at 11:27 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan
#1699 of 10348 Re: audirules [audirules]
Apr 19, 2005 (1:02 pm)
My dealership sells about 50 cars per month -- they are an exclusive Audi only dealership. There are two in Cincinnati, both stand alones. I do not know how the other dealership is doing. The Dayton Ohio dealership (1) sells 10 Audis a month.
The dealer that I have been buying from through my current 2 Audis (both 2003's) claims to have 30 A6's on hand and more in port and even more on a boat.
The number of A8s they have is probably 4 or 5 considering that there are 2 on the showroom floor (one L one short). I have no clue as to their inventory in total. Well they do have one A3. Anyway, I would hardly say the A6's are flying out the door with a 48 hour turn around. But we are in just exiting recession Ohio.
Audis generally have a 3+ month wait -- I have ordered most of my 27 Audi cars over the years (one took over a year, our first TT and my 1997 A8, ordered in 1996 took over 5 months, so that does not seem all that out of line considering the thought was 90% 3.2's and 10% 4.2's were estimated for 2005.)
Unfortunately the main limiting factor is not simply supply it is also demand. I believe the only "segment" car that the A6 outsells is the Acura RL (and around here at least the Jaguar -- any Jaguar). The BMW 5 is still whipping Audi's butt sales wise.
Cincinnati is an Audi town (Zinzinnati) and a BMW town -- according to my dealer, also my long term friend, BMW outsells Audis by 3 to 1 here. I dunno if that is nationwide, but that is his local evaluation of the market.
Out of curiosity how did you come to be such an "Audi Rules" kind of person -- it is refreshing for a change to not have to feel that I need to rush to defend Audi from every angle.
#1700 of 10348 Re: I can not relate.... [commofficer]
Apr 19, 2005 (1:12 pm)
With all the love and money I have put into Audis, I can indeed confirm, that Audis are BREATHTAKINGLY expensive to keep outside of the "Audi Advantage" -- indeed mere mortals cannot afford to repair them without the kind assistance of the Audi implied warranty -- this kind assistance has become more rare, since Audi is supporting VW these days.
I have a 2.7T in my allroad -- when I read and learn about the cost of a turbo failure, it is, to repeat: BREATHTAKING.
Audis are great driving cars, wonderful fit and finish but thus far in their US history they can never be accused of long term reliability. This is in the process of change -- but even my dealer who, like me, bleeds little Audi rings, says the 2005 A6's have had many minor first year glitches and says (in private to me) for MY money, Mark, I would get a leftover A6 4.2 sport (MY 2004). He also believes the new A4, however, to be better than the B6's -- and the allroads, judging by mine, are darn near bullet proof (not literally of course).
Audi does not equal reliability, it does however equal performance, fun, and safety.
Hey, "my girlfriend just broke up with me but there's a cold quart of milk and a fresh package of Chip's Ahoy on the table. . .two outta three ain't bad." -- John Pousette-Dart
#1701 of 10348 Re: Lexus LS [cstiles]
Apr 19, 2005 (1:57 pm)
Can you give us the details on where you heard or saw this news? Too many rumors out there for someone to suddenly say these are the changes.
Apr 19, 2005 (3:43 pm)
I'm not sure why I keep reading suggestions that Infinity finally nailed their interior issues with the new M.
I'm in the market for a new car: A6, GS430, 545i and held out in anticipation of the new M. I've now driven an M twice and really wanted to like it. Especially, given the hype regarding its performance etc---I found the performance to be as advertised but the interiors to be unquestionably sub-par to the competetion. The materials and craftmenship pale in comparison to not just Audi but all the others. The inside is not nearlly as refined and in fact marginal---The first M45 sport I tested had a gap between the what seems like faux wood trim and the gear shift--enough to slide a quarter down into----I really wanted to like it so I went and test drove another. I felt like I would have to be in denial to believe that the interior quality of the Infinty was even in "the ball park" in order to rationalize the comparisons
It's the car for someone who's buying decision is exclusivly made on performance---
In my opinion there is a dramatic differnce--it would be like buying a Timex over a Rolex because the Timex was waterproof to 50 feet deeper than the Rolex---
#1703 of 10348 Re: M interior's [florida1]
Apr 19, 2005 (4:07 pm)
I pretty much agree. I have until early August. I also drove the M several times and really wanted to like it. But the rosewood in the M looks like cardboard. Turned me right off. Also found the suspension a little too jarring (non-sport as well as sport).
I drove the 545 and just found it too gimmicky-flip the turn signal and it never goes off? Too much to learn. No thanks.
The GS 430 I thought handled nicely but my left leg was always up against the door. Plus the small sunroof and ridiculously small trunk were turn-offs for such an expensive vehicle.
I will test drive the new 330i in a few weeks. May be the one.
What I really did like but know it is so impractical and gets horrible mileage was the X5 4.4 which I drove last week. Fantastic interior and seats, no idrive, huge side mirrors(best I have seen on a BMW) and a magnificent sunroof that has to be experienced to be believed-they call it panoramic and that is no joke! I just may get this one. My wife and I both felt totally exhilarated in this one-the only car we both agreed on in a positive way.
#1704 of 10348 Re: M interior's [florida1]
Apr 19, 2005 (4:09 pm)
I'm sorry but did you say that the M's interior pales in comparison to the 545i?
Did you really mean that? I found the 5's interior to be painfully bland and poorly designed from a functional perspective. It evokes the minimalism of bauhaus yet leaves out the functionality part. And when is BMW going to get rid of the cheesy numbered temp dials already? This is the digital age, is it not? The depressingly plain presentation aside, there is virtually no center storage, and who at BMW thought that making you reach across the cabin for dash-mounted cup holders was a good idea?
You are the first I've heard say that the 5 has a better interior than any car in this class. I'll give you that the Audi and the Lexus have very nice interiors, especially the Audi. I'll also concede that Infiniti went for a dramatic design with the M's dash, but it is one that I find attractive. I could do without some of the LARGER BUTTONS but IMO it makes the 5 series interior look underwhelming at best.
#1705 of 10348 MB advertising materials
Apr 19, 2005 (4:44 pm)
While this is strictly not on the topic of sedans, it fits the general Japanese vs. Euro discussion...
Being an M-series owner, after coming back from work the other night I find a nifty looking, spherically shaped silver package in my mailbox. It's from M-B. Open it and inside find some glossy leaflets about the new 2006 M-series, inviting to check it out on their website with a special access code. As a gift, a cool looking 2006 M-series MBUSA pen is included. Attached to a black glossy cardboard, this writing appliance is silver, thick, made of metal and has a great grid-like grip.
Wife comes home, sees it and instantly screams gimme, gimme, can I have it. I oblige, since she has a lot to write that night. We try it out by pressing a button, turns out this thing is a very sophisticated mechanical pencil that first projects a conical tip like a Parker ballpoint pen, then ejects the lead insert. Wow!
I check back with her an hour later, how is it going with the new pencil, honey? She is all pissed off--the thing plain disintegrated on her into pieces and she spent quite some time putting it back together. Sort of like our ML, isn't it?
Glad I bought an extended 4-yr warranty on the ML. It is still paying off. The latest is the fuel gauge shows anywhere between half and three-quarters when you pour a tankful, depending on the phase of the moon. Glad at least the trip computer is working after being replaced, so that I can tell roughly how much gas is left.
I'd rather stick to the Japanese product going forward, thank you.
#1706 of 10348 Re: M interior's [florida1]
Apr 19, 2005 (5:48 pm)
The best interiors so say many of us here and in the car magazines is the Audi. The preference some have for glossy looking wood versus the matte wood accounts for some of your issues, I assume. Being an Audi owner for so many years, i can't remember the last time Audi had the flat finish (it was for several years -- I remember when Audi first went glossy, I was sure it was fake -- it wasn't).
Some see the gloss wood as an invitation to finger prints. If I were given the choice, I would probably opt for glossy -- but maybe that is just because I am used to it.
While I agree the refinement isn't up to Audi standards, it certainly can be argued (not just by me) to be way nicer than the BMW 5's of late. My wife just went for the new X3 and I was lectured here that the X3 had a plastic interior. Well, we finally went back to see what we must've missed -- my wife ordered her X3 with sport, premium, birch wood and all the toys ( cranking it to over $46K) -- we specifically looked at a BOB X3 2.5 with no options -- the seats looked awful, the trim was out of place and the accents were missing. All part of either the Prem or Sport package I assume.
I can't comment or attest to the previous statements about the thickness of the leather on the M35X's seats, but with the Journey Package the seats seem to be of the appropriate fit and finish -- if one is NOT expecting an Audi.
The thing about opinions is we all have them; I agree with some of your observations about the M, but "marginal?" Wow, that's a biggie -- especially when one must assume you have seen up close and personal a 2005 BMW 530 interior.
The Infiniti is the one that feels most German to me -- if that means harsh or stiff or if it just mean "performance" -- I'll accept that.
My wife, a staunch stick shift person and apparently an even more staunch ONLY German cars will do fan -- thinks the Infiniti is too plush, too quiet, too isolating -- of course she thought the new A6 was a step backwards in that regard (too luxurious, too un-Audi-like for her tastes).
Without this forum, I am virtually certain I would have two new Audis in my garage -- but this forum forced me to check out the competition and damn if the competition didn't prove that it had come a long way since the last time I even considered a non-Audi (1988, as I recall).
To each his/her own.
The leather thickness thing DOES bother me a bit, I must admit.
#1707 of 10348 Re: Lexus LS [aggie76]
Apr 19, 2005 (7:31 pm)
There is a small article on Edmunds, although it doesn't go into details other than to confirm that Toyota has filed for these changes with the U.S. Patent office.
Below is the link...
There is also an article on Automotive News online, but you have to pay to read the full story.
Apr 19, 2005 (8:45 pm)
"Why do you guys like these asian cars? At this price point? What value do they provide to have such a sticker. Not one has real wood (completely through-out the vehicle,) Not one uses all metal trim (versus chromed plastic,) and not one has leather that measures more that 1.5 MM in thickness (which means fade and wear in less that 9K miles.)"
Actually, EVERY Lexus, even the ES330, has real wood. (Well except the IS300 of course). Did you know that the wood in a Lexus all comes from the same tree? They dont like to mix grains. While I cant tell you the thickness of the leather, I use Mothers leather conditioners on my seats and the leather in my '96 LS400 looked pretty new when I sold it. Easily held up as well as the conolly in my Jaguars.
As for the rest of your "asian cars this, asian cars that" posts, I'd like to see one credible source for this information. Lexus is pretty fanatical about safety, I dont know if they still do but for awhile they had a seperate website called "Lexussafety.com" with stories from owners who hit walls at 70mph and walked away without a scratch. A roof that can only stand 1100lbs of pressure in a 4,000lb car is going to collapse, and fast. That doesnt sound like the kind of thing Lexus would consider "acceptable". Its perfectly fine if you dont want to buy asian, go right ahead and dont buy one. They'll get by without your sale. However, lets try and stop making up stuff to make Audi look better, eh?