Last post on Nov 25, 2013 at 11:27 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Lexus GS 430, Acura RL, BMW 5 Series, Volvo S80, Audi A6, Infiniti M35, Infiniti M45, Mercedes-Benz E-Class, Cadillac STS, Sedan
#1424 of 10348 Re: The Invisible Luxury Performance Car [bartalk3]
Mar 29, 2005 (1:32 pm)
I'm sure the STS is a great car and from what I've read it is competitive with the Japanese and European competition.
But you know what Cadillac's problem is?
They thought they could just wake up one morning and charge the same prices that Lexus, Mercedes and BMW do. A new STS comes out and all of a sudden it can cost in the mid $60K range. The previous STS probably had a average transaction price in the mid to high $40K range. Before that they thought people will fork out over $70K for a Cadillac convertible when their last convertible was a flop. And then the SRX they try to sell fully loaded with a V8.
You remember what Toyota did with Lexus?
They started prices low, got customers hooked on the product and raised prices, accordingly. Notice how the LS400 started out at $35K in 1990 at about the price of a 300E, then moved up to 400E territory, then with the 2000 redesign, moved to S-class territory at about $70K loaded. And the next one may well approach $80K+.
This is what would have been the smart move for Cadillac. THey should have priced the new STS a little over the old one. With the SRX they should have priced it under the RX330's base MSRP with the V6, and the XLR needed to be in the SC430's price range.
I don't think Cadillac's resurrection is fading, I think it's doing just fine. The CTS is selling in healthy numbers and I believe with minimal rebates, the SRX is doing pretty well, but I believe the XLR has a huge supply on dealer lots, which a $70K convertible should not have.
So in the end, GM just got a bit cocky with Cadillac.
#1425 of 10348 Re: Tire replacement for new sports sedans [richcream]
Mar 29, 2005 (1:35 pm)
Why should the dealer pay for your tires?
Consumer wants big wheels and tires and are willing to pay for them. Therefore manufacturer abides and builds cars with big tires/wheels.
Tire maker sells big tires to manufacturer's for cheap because they know in a year they will be back for big expensive tires which they will make a killing on!
#1426 of 10348 Re: Tire replacement for new sports sedans [maxhonda99]
Mar 29, 2005 (1:51 pm)
Who said they should pay for my tires? I just don't think I should pay for their's if I want to opt for something more durable.
I should be able to cop a pair of longer lasting 245/45 18s, with a greater treadwear, and that the dealer should deduct the price of the tires that are coming off the car.
Hell, even if he deducts the wholesale rather than the retail value, that's still at least a few hundos off the price.
#1427 of 10348 Re: Motorweek [markcincinnati]
Mar 29, 2005 (2:06 pm)
Wow this forum gets busy this time of day...this is like old news but there have been 12 posts in less than an hour....
couldn't help but wonder what Tiger Woods drives in real life...when reading about the Buick Lacrosse.
Mar 29, 2005 (2:12 pm)
"It's interesting in terms of what's been said here about the decline of the U.S. industry that on this board the last few months, the Cadillac STS hasn't even been MENTIONED. It doesn't even EXIST as far as we're concerned. When my wife was in a good mood I thought I'd drop the idea of an STS to get her reaction. Don't darken my door with a Cadillac, she said. Why not? Image. The image of a geezer car and the image of phony, show-off vulgar rich. GM and the U.S. industry in general is battling an image they can't shake, regardless of how good their cars are. And the STS is a competitive car. So is the Lincoln LS, which I hesitate to mention for fear of being driven off this board."
As max said, the STS costs WAY too much money. They expect people to fork over E500 prices for a car that while it may be competitive, it leads the class at nothing. I've also seen barely midpack results in most comparison tests. Those kind of results generally wont set the boards a flame with desire for an overpriced, average player. The CTS got off to a weak start but then got its legs with the 3.6L engine. Unfortunately, with cars like the C350, the '05 A4 3.2, the new 3 series, and even the Lexus IS, the CTS is old news. Also, the once conquering CTS-V will be no match for the next M3 and RS4.
The LS is not even competitive. The Jag S-type has been repeatedly smashed by Germany and Japan, and the LS cant even measure up to the S-type. Its V8 is underpowered, and the V6 is dreadful. Its interior is lackluster, and the transmission is pathetic. The next version will be based on the Ford 500, which will most likely make things worse, as the DEW98 is more agile than its '90s era Volvo replacement. Lincoln will of course run the same ads as Ford saying how much you're saving over an Audi A8, but then again, you get what you pay for.
#1429 of 10348 the topic is ...
Mar 29, 2005 (2:21 pm)
luxury performance sedans ... we're wandering all over the place.
#1430 of 10348 Re: Tire replacement for new sports sedans [richcream]
Mar 29, 2005 (3:05 pm)
The tire wear factor on the M with the standard 18" wheels is very low. Dealer would not discuss 17" wheels. Bought the LS430 with 17" wheels and a tire wear factor in the 400's. I gave up the sports ride, but I feel that I eliminated a lot of unwanted problems with alignment, tire wear, harshness and knowing that after 8000 miles I am driving on tires that are 50% shot.
#1431 of 10348 Re: the topic is ... [pat]
Mar 29, 2005 (4:14 pm)
At least nobody is fighting! Isn't that a positive?
#1432 of 10348 Re: Tire replacement for new sports sedans [richcream]
Mar 29, 2005 (4:16 pm)
I apologize. I thought you wanted them to pay for your tires when they go bald!
The problem is that there are not that many longer lasting 18" tires out there, especially when you get up to the V or greater speed ratings.
Mar 29, 2005 (4:27 pm)
NBC nightly news is about to do a segment on why Americans do not buy American cars.Check it out now.