Last post on Dec 04, 2013 at 7:12 AM
You are in the Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ
What is this discussion about?
Lincoln Zephyr, Lincoln MKZ, Sedan
#497 of 3084 Zephyr-Milan-Fusion triplets
Oct 10, 2005 (8:00 am)
The main problem with the Zephyr, as it is currently configured, is that it is only a differently trimmed Fusion. The Fusion is a good car, but Lincoln charges many thousands more for a Fusion/Milan with some upgraded interior trim. The seat cooling option is the only unique feature, but even that does not come standard.
When you start comparing the Zephyr to other cars, the surface glitz doesn't hold up. How can Lincoln promote a near luxury car these days, with no electronic stability program, no brake assist, not electronic brake force distribution, no nothing (to set it apart from Camrys, Accords, etc.)?
The 2006 Hyundai Sonata offers all those things STANDARD, plus better mileage, more power, more room, same quiet interior for $10,000 less. Of course the Sonata does not pretend to be near luxury, like the pretend Lincoln.
Looking at true near luxury competition, use Lexus as an example. The IS 3.5 has more power, far more electronic drive controls, similar quiet, good mileage, more power, and the more expensive-to-build rear wheel drive. The ES330 is similarly priced and better equipped, although certainly a more boring car than the Zephyr.
The reason why Zephyr looks so good to some people is that the Fusion is good--and Lincolns in general are so mediocre (the LS excepted). The best Lincoln is the LS, but Lincoln has ignored it. Although it is balanced, powerful and well-sized (only 3" longer than Zephyr), it has never been promoted properly and should have had a re-skin and new and classier interior for 2006.
#498 of 3084 Re: Zephyr-Milan-Fusion triplets [gregg_vw]
Oct 10, 2005 (8:19 am)
To be fair the Zephyr does have many luxury features not available on Fusion/Milan that you didn't mention in addition to the cooled seats:
Dual-Zone automatic HVAC
Keyless entry Keypad
Upgraded Leather (sat in both and there is a big difference)
Upgraded sound insulation
Upgraded interior (granted it's not a huge upgrade)
Yes, it should have the 3.5L V6 but that will happen next year. The best direct comparison is the ES330, not the sporty RWD IS.
Whether it's worth the price difference is a matter of personal preference. And most people buying this type of car won't care much about HP.
#499 of 3084 Re: Zephyr-Milan-Fusion triplets [akirby]
Oct 10, 2005 (8:49 am)
OK, you have a point. However, most of those features could and should be available on the Milan. There are lots of folks who will buy the Zephyr. Most of them will not have driven the comparable Acura, Lexus, Infinity, Audi, etc. There is nothing in the Zephyr that sets it apart or even puts it on a par with the others, equipmantp-wise. And I beg to differ about the all new 2006 Lexus IS. Yes, it is sporty, but it is also luxuriously equipped and garners the respect of the auto press. Zephyr will not get that until it has a better engine, a manumatic, all wheel drive and perhaps ESP, EBD, and brake assist. Hopefully, these improvements won't come too late.
FoMoCo is short of engine choices across the line. Compare the options between the F150 and Silverado, or 500 and 2006 Impala. Even with one engine choice, Ford is outgunned usually (Navigator v. Escalade, Town Car v. DTS). They simply must do something about that. Putting a 3.5 in the Zephyr is a start, but then that engine will also likely go into 500, Montego and who knows what else? What's coming after the 3.5? Does Ford have a clue yet?
#500 of 3084 Zephyr - Mania
Oct 10, 2005 (3:36 pm)
I waited a few days before posting any messages because I wanted to review the latest zephyr chatter to prove more than a few points....let me first digress and address the gentleman who had a problem with all caps...ahem...
Marketing does not equal a localized New York city advertising blitz campaign although after reviewing some messages I admit the brainwashing of the public with Lexus ES330, Acura TL, Mercedes, etc. is almost impossible to overcome...step outside of the box of limited space and time and realize many are brainwashed by the imports. All Lexus, Acura, and the like, are, deressed up versions of Toyota, Honda, Volkswagon, etc...and quality cutting corners of the same (to save money) that effect performance are proven (by empirical evidence)not only in expert opinion reading/magazines but in reliability, dependability, and test driving as well...yet it is this so called expert trade magazine and media reviews which stay in business with/by corporate payment and backing with mind controlling promotion and endorsement. All these so called superior vehicles are not what they used to be...also they cost an arm and a leg to maintain and repair properly...(remember the Acura Legend...now that was a true winner in its day)...remember they do not make them like they used to...the RL can not touch that car...Also addressing the chatter about limited options, engines, etc....too many choices, too much product, and over manufacturing leads to cost over runs, consumer indecision, and compromised production quality...and poor management decisions.. then the government is queried to help the industry out...the market is too segmented as it is...and in the mean time while the so called upper echelon has cut corners...the domestics are constantly improving...kind of like Nissan...marketing means perception...which is accomplished by brainwashing...just keep reading the internet chatter of the so-called "pin-heads"...and I do not mean this term in any negative connotation...we are who we are...keep an open mind despite the odds." The Zephyr is a great car and for the money I would buy one!
#501 of 3084 Re: Zephyr-Milan-Fusion triplets [akirby]
Oct 11, 2005 (7:08 am)
Akirby, problem is, the new ES is scheduled to bow in less than 8 months. For the majority of its lifetime, THAT Lexus is the one with which this Zephyr will compete. And if Lexus prices the ES (expected with the corporate 268 horse 3.5L V6, perhaps tuned slightly higher than that) as agressively as they have the new IS, its going to be tough.
#502 of 3084 Re: Zephyr-Milan-Fusion triplets [alpha01]
Oct 11, 2005 (7:27 am)
Maybe, but the current ES330 is about $3K more than the Zephyr similarly equipped. The ES may have a few more things standard but not much. And I seriously doubt they'll be dropping the price if they put in a new engine. And the Zephyr will get the 3.5L duratec with about 270 hp for the 2007 model year (about 11 months from now). It will also have optional AWD.
Rumor is there will also be an auxilliary jack added to the stereo and I'm guessing Sirius satellite will also be available.
They are purposely introducing new things slowly to ensure a quality and recall free launch and will be adding things as they go.
Supposedly there will be an AWD Fusion ST next year with the 3.5L duratec.
#503 of 3084 Re: Zephyr - Mania [howard11]
Oct 11, 2005 (9:58 am)
Howard, really! My point, if I may have one, is that although platform sharing happens across the board in the auto industry, the Zephyr shares more than a platform with the Fusion. It shares the windshield and all window glass, the doors, all substructure and mount points, most of the steering wheel, switchgear and trim knobs, the engine, the transmission, etc. etc. It IS essentially a Fusion with a different trim package. That does not make it bad. The Fusion is a good car. What it does not make it is a bargain. Lincoln charges a chunk of change for this gussied up Fusion. The fact is Lincoln could not have reasonably charged any more for it if it had bothered to give the Zephyr a unique roof or doors or other body panels.
Now, look at what Toyota does with the ES300 and Camry. They do not share a single body panel or even the roofline. Or the Lincoln LS and Jaguar S Type (no one could tell they share a lot underneath just by looking at them). Even GM, though its cars are not selling like hotcakes, completely differentiates the alike-underneath Chevy Impala, Pontiac Grand Prix and Buick LaCrosse. They don't even share window glass.
Lincoln needs more differentiation from its sister divisions to justify the prices. The Mark LT is the most egregious example. It IS an F150 with more chrome. They didn't even change the front facia--only the grill insert.
Lincolns are not bad vehicles. Sales would jump if they readjusted prices downward to highline Mercury levels--which is what Lincoln is now (the soon-to-be-killed LS excepted).
#504 of 3084 Re: ZEPHYR MANIA [akirby]
Oct 11, 2005 (12:08 pm)
Wow, I really didn't know that until I researched it now. I was on vacation in July, maybe that's why I never noticed.
It's sad that Lincoln lost the Aviator. It has always been a person favorite in that class. Now Lincoln's lineup is now 5 cars, with the LS near it's end and the Mark LT's demise can't be too far away. That new Mustang based coupe better hurry, 2009 seems too far away to go on with such a limited lineup.
#505 of 3084 Re: ZEPHYR MANIA [navigator89]
Oct 11, 2005 (2:19 pm)
Well, Lincoln does have the new Aviator coming in 2007...I hope it is like the concept of a few years ago, and not watered down. There is also a plan for two new sedans. I hope they are Lincoln-esque and not Lincoln grills grafted onto Ford models.
Lincoln really missed the boat (as Ford did by not marketing the 427 concept) by not bringing the Lincoln Continental concept (reminiscient of the '61 Lincoln) to market. As the new Mustang shows, if you do heritage well (very current but respectful of the original design), everyone loves it. If you don't do it well (new Thunderbird), it flops. The two sedans will be front-drive....unfortunate as the rest of the luxury industry gravitates toward RWD. Still, if they do them right, like Audi, the AWD versions could shine. Plus, there is that 2009 Lincoln Mustang. Remember how differentiated the 1980s T-bird and Marks were? It could happen again.
#506 of 3084 Re: ZEPHYR MANIA [gregg_vw]
Oct 11, 2005 (6:52 pm)
The new Lincolns won't be Fords with new grilles - they'll be Volvos with new grilles. Actually, you won't be able to tell that they're based on the Volvos or the Five Hundred just like you don't see anything Mazda6 about the Zephyr, Milan or Fusion.
And they will only be offered with AWD and at least an option V8. FWD is only for the Zephyr.