Last post on Feb 22, 2013 at 11:54 AM
You are in the Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ
What is this discussion about?
Lincoln Zephyr, Lincoln MKZ, Sedan
#2989 of 3018 Re: Yet another review [akirby]
Dec 08, 2012 (11:47 am)
Oh, geez. You CANNOT directly compare a 13 year old car to one just released. Of course the MKZ is better from that standpoint, but that is saying nothing about the goodness or impact of the Lincoln LS in its time. Just like with inflation adjustments, you must look at what was available and possible at the time the car was created.
With few exceptions, all cars sold today are reasonably good to great. Compared to cars of the past, they have more equipment, better interior materials, greater safety, better tires, better sound insulation, better chassis rigidity, etc. The MKZ today being good enough or "better than a ES350" is hardly in the same league of goodness that the LS had in 2000.
The new MKZ, even FWD based, could have made the same impact, but does not. It's this ongoing thinking that they have a few years to get there that keeps Lincoln second-rate, despite having some good vehicles for sale.
Granted, the Zephyr was stop-gap for a starved brand back in 2005. For what little impact changing the grill a couple times and the rear end styling had over the seven years of the first iteration, they could have taken those funds and added them to the effort to create the very best car they could the second time around.
I just do not understand how such limited thinking professionals continued to get nice salaries and bonuses for so long while turning in such unremarkable efforts for Lincoln for so many years. Where were the car guys in this?
When I first saw the concept for the MKS years ago, I said, "Oh, no!, that would be a mistake...just look at it!" And who am I? Nobody. When I saw how they screwed up the MKT concept by modifying it into the whale of a station wagon it is today, I was like, "please don't!" The concept was edgier, prettier and more provocative. I remember protesting how they changed the Lincoln concept vehicle for the MKX into an Edge with a Lincoln clip, and you argued that the concept and the MKX looked practically the same and no one would notice.
Well, people do notice daring styling, and they notice when styling is bland, but daring usually has to come first to establish a foothold.
I repeat: to begin to be a viable and respected luxury company, Lincoln must set a goal of building the best cars in their class. Anything less is just wasted effort until they do so. Holding on to their little market share, or waiting until Lincoln itself generates enough profits to really introduce outstanding iron will not get them much further than it has in the past many years of tweaking things.
I have to believe the new new new Lincoln team has finally gotten the memo. But I also know that as more luxury offerings are being created worldwide, other models and makes will continue to go under. It is the nature of the business.
#2990 of 3018 Lincoln Fusion/Mondeo/MKZ
Dec 18, 2012 (8:47 pm)
I read in Car And Driver online that the MKZ does have some of its style influenced by the Mondeo/ Fusion. According to Car and Driver it shares roof line and belt line with the Mondeo /Fusion. Allthough One can say that the MKZ does not share sheet metal with the Mondeo/Fusion but that can only be expected as the MKZ is longer , higher and a little wider than the Mondeo/Fusion. But none the less,it still shares styling cues of the Mondeo/Fusion.
Another matter though is that the MKZ given to Edmunds to test on the road was rigged with Michelin Super Sport tires. According to a Ford spokesman, The tires would be agency or dealership offered if they even are offered. However,the tires didn't seem to impress the testers though as according to Edmunds and Car and Driver, the performance of the vehicle was middling at best. Retest the vehicle with the tires that the vehicle has been designed for and then determine how really good this car performs. But still one has to wonder why did Ford try to rig the results with using tires that are not offered on the vehicle.
#2991 of 3018 Re: Lincoln Fusion/Mondeo/MKZ [unitedkingdom]
Dec 18, 2012 (8:47 pm)
However,the tires didn't seem to impress the testers though as according to Edmunds and Car and Driver, the performance of the vehicle was middling at best.
Umm....I guess you missed the part where the slalom speed of the MKZ with the ringer tires (same as the M5) was faster than the M5 and only 1 mph slower than a Porsche 911. They were impressed with the performance but they were so upset about the ringer tires they couldn't bring themselves to say anything good about it.
All this "it's not good enough" without any actual objective comparisons to back it up is tiresome. It's not the best but it's not as bad as reviewers are making out.
#2992 of 3018 Re: Lincoln Fusion/Mondeo/MKZ [akirby]
Dec 18, 2012 (10:36 pm)
Test drivers still see cheaper Fusion performance that is why they are not impressed by it. Their reasoning is that the MKZ cost at least 9K US$ more than Fusion/Mondeo for Fusion/ Mondeo performance so one is actually purchasing a slightly differently styled larger more luxurious minded but still using cheap Fusion/Mondeo instrument switches and cheap plastic interior appointments vehicle. As far as testers bias ,these testers test hundreds of vehicles a year in the MKZ price range so they should know what the other vehicles in the MKZ price range are capable of and where the MKZ's capabilities are found wanting when compared even if the other vehicles are not being tested with the MKZ.
We will just have to wait to see how good this Ford platform is when the MKZ is pitted against its rivals in a real road test. As far as being faster than an M5 what type of G forces does the MKZ have versus the M5 when slaloming? Also , does the MKZ understeer ?It is inevitable that it does because of its fwd platform. Even moderately priced Audi and VW vehicles do so to some extent even with awd because of unequal weight distribution. BMW sedans, sport coupe and roadsters all are engineered for neutral steer. Al be it it's easier to do so with a rear wheel drive vehicle. It seem also that according to the road testers that the awd system on the MKZ is not oriented towards performance as are other vehicles' awd systems in the MKZ's price range but only for traction during inclement weather as according to the testers on dry pavement one really has to push the vehicle to its extreme limits to get it to engage.
The testers should have refused to test the factory rigged vehicles. The testers should have gotten one from an agency or dealership. One that consumers would have to purchase.
#2993 of 3018 Re: Lincoln Fusion/Mondeo/MKZ [unitedkingdom]
Dec 19, 2012 (7:57 am)
Yes, I noticed the sharing between Fusion and MKZ as well. Ford went ahead and gave them the same windshield, same front door shape and front door glass, and same roof panel back to the top of the rear glass. Another one of those nobody-will-ever-notice things, I suppose. That may be largely true, but over time, it unconsciously confers too much of a relationship between the two. This is unlike the old Taurus and Continental of the late 80s and early 90s, which shared architecture, but no glass or body panels, and were never perceived as the same car with different styling. Today, the Flex and MKT do no such sharing. Hopefully, this will be the last instance where Ford and Lincoln use such shortcuts.
#2994 of 3018 Re: Lincoln Fusion/Mondeo/MKZ [akirby]
Dec 19, 2012 (8:04 am)
"Slip inside the cabin and the new Lincoln MKZ feels special from the first. A high center stack sweeps down from the dashboard into the center console in one fluid form. The stack of controls itself is dominated by a large touchscreen interface with touch-capacitive faux-buttons.
At this point, we think the Lincoln MKZ is a better car than the Lexus ES, which is a big statement from us. It drives better, looks better and offers as much luxury, though the dealership experience is another thing, of course. Yet the midsize market doesn't end with the Lexus ES, as the comparative set includes the Acura TL SH-AWD, Audi A4 and Volvo S60 - three cars that deliver the same prestige, price and package size as the MKZ.
For those looking for something daring, dashing, and different in the midsize luxury segment, the 2013 Lincoln MKZ is a genuine player. And so for Lincoln, the game begins."
#2995 of 3018 Re: Lincoln Fusion/Mondeo/MKZ [brucelinc]
Dec 19, 2012 (8:20 am)
Now it's on sale in January? Call it a 2014, and skip 2013. The sales numbers for the model year will look better, and resale will remain higher on a 2014 compared to a 2013.
#2997 of 3018 Re: A more objective review than Edmunds whiny ranting [carchatter1]
Dec 21, 2012 (2:13 am)
I agree completely. I read the review by what is supposed to be an unbiased editor, and it read more like a hatchet job.
So, the tires were changed on the MKZ........ SO?!??! What you do if you ARE in a position of authority for your magazine IS you contact Lincoln and tell them "this won't do.....send us another vehicle that is more representative of what would be available for the CONSUMER. Or, you wait and get a showroom fresh one! VERY Logical....... and I would think that if you are a senior editor that the powers that be at Lincoln would be obliging.
If Lincoln then refuses, then they will appear to look bad of their own accord. Instead you get this inflammatory review from the senior editor at Edmunds that makes it seem more like (she) the senior editor was having a BAD day or a personal axe to grind. In either case, the review makes Lincoln look iffy, and the senior editor like a first class whiner incapable of writing an article in an un-biased manner. (And TIRES!?? Surely there were better ways to diffuse this situation.....still lacking in professionalism on both sides...)
As for me, I'll shop around and will check out Lincoln's offering as I definitely would not hold this Lincoln MKZ article written by this "senior" editor" up as a credible source of information in making my decision on my purchase.......
#2998 of 3018 Re: A more objective review than Edmunds whiny ranting [manster12]
Dec 21, 2012 (8:33 am)
Sounds like you are having a bad day as well. The back attack makes me wonder why someone who doesn't like the car, and writes the why of that, elicits so much criticism from you. Of course no one article should be definitive in making a purchase decision.
I look at the reviews overall. I was hoping the car would be more remarkable than it is, but it is a start. Reviews are mixed, not uniformly bad. Thus, the car is good enough to compete. Reviews are mixed as well on the new ES350...that won't kill it.
Mainly, the MKZ no longer has forgettable styling, and its equipment and engines are competitive. It is just not great enough to turn Lincoln's reputation around right now.