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Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ

3018 messages,  Last post on Feb 22, 2013 at 11:54 AM

You are in the Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ Forum.

What is this discussion about? Lincoln Zephyr, Lincoln MKZ, Sedan

Messages Page 299 of 303

#2977 of 3018 Re: The tests are trickling out now [jerrys2] by akirby

Dec 01, 2012 (9:31 am)

Replying to: jerrys2 (Dec 01, 2012 8:55 am)
Ford knows the dealers are a weak link and they're working to fix that but it will take several years.
 
Gregg - I'll reread the reviews but it just seemed like they dinged the MKZ for certain things but let the ES350 slide when it was the same or worse. Maybe I'm just being oversensitive.

#2978 of 3018 Re: The tests are trickling out now [akirby] by akirby

Dec 01, 2012 (9:43 am)

Replying to: akirby (Dec 01, 2012 9:31 am)
The entire first page of the MKZ review compares it to the Fusion. The ES gets one sentence. And it may be larger but the ES is still based on the Camry/Avalon platform.
 
The MKZ gets panned because they didn't like the handling when pushed hard yet the ES350 which is even worse gets a pass.
 
Obviously these were written by 2 different people using 2 different sets of requirements. It just smacks of the double standard that Lincoln has to fight and I don't think it's fair.
 
The MKZ isn't the best vehicle but objectively it's much better than the ES350 and some others and the reviews should reflect that.

#2979 of 3018 Re: The tests are trickling out now [akirby] by gregg_vw

Dec 01, 2012 (10:37 am)

Replying to: akirby (Dec 01, 2012 9:43 am)
Yes, you are being over-sensitive. No, you apparently did not read some of the other reviews. You also do not mention the Autoweek review that calls it for the MKZ. Lighten up. There are going to be ES 350 owners who will be needlessly sensitive about the Autoweek review.
 
And if you insist on stating that the related Camry and Avalon platforms are the same architecture (like Fusion and MKZ actually are), then we shall have to do the same when the new Taurus/MKS platform is fashioned from the Fusion platform. Since Camry and Avalon have different hardpoints and wheelbases, truly their relationship is not the same as the one that Fusion and MKZ have with each other. But whatever you prefer...we can call the coming MKS the same platform as the MKZ if you prefer.
 
That said, let's see what is written when the same reviewer compares both cars together.

#2980 of 3018 Re: The tests are trickling out now [gregg_vw] by akirby

Dec 01, 2012 (4:01 pm)

Replying to: gregg_vw (Dec 01, 2012 10:37 am)
I'm not ripping on the ES350 because it shares a Toyota platform. I'm saying that the writers almost never mention that fact when talking about a Lexus. Yet with Lincoln they give it an entire page. That criticism was warranted with the old MKZ but not the new one. Get over it already. It's like they have that line already pre-written for every Lincoln they review.
 
As long as they're unique vehicles it doesn't matter what platform they started with.
 
I know the AW review was positive which is why it's so frustrating.

#2981 of 3018 I like the new MKZ very much, and it might be better than the new ES by empoweredbc

Dec 02, 2012 (8:58 pm)

But the new Avalon, I have a feeling, will be better than both.
 
Motor Trend fell in love with Avalon when they tested it for Car of the Year, saying it was the car that most surprised them. And it gets 25 MPG combined with the V6.
 
I have a problem with these new Ford hybrids getting nowhere near 47 MPG. They are getting pretty much what the 2012's got. No more.
 
There are no losers at this party, but I think Lincoln will have a similar start to Cadillac's ATS, which sold only 1200 in it's first full month. But I believe it will build a following as it goes through it's lifecycle. It seems like a solid new entry, but the weak Lincoln brand, and horrible Lincoln dealerships, is probably what will hurt it the most at the start.

#2982 of 3018 Re: I like the new MKZ very much, and it might be better than the new ES [empoweredbc] by akirby

Dec 03, 2012 (7:21 am)

Replying to: empoweredbc (Dec 02, 2012 8:58 pm)
There are several 2013 Fusion hybrid owners reporting 47 mpg and higher. It all depends on how you drive it. A lot of these new owners are not used to driving a hybrid for max fuel economy.

#2983 of 3018 Yet another review by gregg_vw

Dec 07, 2012 (12:44 pm)

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/12/07/2013-lincoln-mkz-first-drive-review-video/#co- ntinued
 
"Lincoln doesn't want anyone to think of its newest offering as a redesigned Ford Fusion with boosted luxury appointments and a $15,000 price premium, but the reality remains hard to ignore. A sinking feeling in our stomachs tells us this MKZ is still not distinct enough to buoy the luxury brand."

#2984 of 3018 Re: Yet another review [gregg_vw] by akirby

Dec 07, 2012 (2:53 pm)

Replying to: gregg_vw (Dec 07, 2012 12:44 pm)
Not a bad review actually. This is my only gripe:
 
Our conclusion, after taking the Audi A6, BMW 5 Series, Cadillac CTS and Lexus ES into consideration, is that the 2013 MKZ falls short. There are significant compromises (second row comfort, small trunk, ergonomic gripes and a thirsty V6 to name a few) keeping it off our most-wanted list.
 
Out of those vehicles, only the Lexus gets better fuel economy, none have a bigger trunk.
 
I wish they'd just say "we like the other ones better" instead of trying to make up objective reasons that aren't really accurate.
 
This is not a world beater - just a significant improvement over the old model that should increase sales considerably and should at least stop the "rebadge" references.

#2985 of 3018 Re: Yet another review [akirby] by gregg_vw

Dec 07, 2012 (3:22 pm)

Replying to: akirby (Dec 07, 2012 2:53 pm)
This is not a world beater - just a significant improvement over the old model that should increase sales considerably and should at least stop the "rebadge" references.
 
Agreed. However, it again underscores the slow learning at Ford about Lincoln. Each vehicle issued in the 2000's was designed to perk up Lincoln. The MKZ, MKX, MKS, MKT all failed to grab imaginations, and the Navigator just rotted.
 
The new MKZ has more of a chance, simply because it is not homely like the MKS, not ugly like the MKT, not non-descript like the former MKZ, and not a Ford with different front and rear clips like the MKX. This MKZ could have been the Kia Optima-type change of this class, given the seven year model year run of the previous iteration.
 
A world beater is what they ought to build to save the brand, and they still haven't quite learned that part of turning things around. It is not enough that the car is as good or better than the ES350. The ES350 already has a large customer base.
 
Lincoln also mentions plans for unique engines, but has managed to deliver none so far. The hybrid and 2.0 liter are available in the Fusion for example, and the 3.7 is in the Mustang and the F150. Yes, GM does the same thing, but GM didn't claim they would do otherwise.
 
I don't understand how talking about what will be for the last dozen years has done anything for Lincoln. Surprise us. Do something unexpected. Stop with the "we plan to do this or that" stuff. Just do it.

#2986 of 3018 Re: Yet another review [gregg_vw] by akirby

Dec 07, 2012 (7:54 pm)

Replying to: gregg_vw (Dec 07, 2012 3:22 pm)
Once again you're confusing what's been said and done in the past with what's being said and done today. The current plan for Lincoln and the current management team has only been in place for 18 months. The MkZ styling was already set in stone with very little room for change. The new Lincoln specific drivetrains are still being developed.
 
You should give the new guys a chance to prove they can do something different. And they need a couple more years to do it. I don't see this new plan as anything like the old ones. I believe one reason they seem to be moving slowly is they're trying to do it right the first time (this go round at least) so they're being more methodical than some might like. I also think they were given a limited budget and resources to work within because at the end of the day Lincoln has to make money.
 
Am I making excuses? Maybe. When we see the new dealerships and the next 2 new vehicles we'll know for sure. In the meantime a little progress is better than none.
 
The MKZ is the best vehicle that Lincoln has produced in at least the last 30 years. They should get some credit for that.

Messages Page 299 of 303

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