Last post on Dec 04, 2013 at 7:12 AM
You are in the Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ
What is this discussion about?
Lincoln Zephyr, Lincoln MKZ, Sedan
#2682 of 3084 Re: 2010 Interior Pic [akirby]
Sep 04, 2008 (1:00 pm)
So how soon can we expect a Lincoln MKZ that does not use the Fusion body? This one has the MKS style interior, and a (rather timid) interpretation of the MKR grill. Still looks a lot like a Fusion with a Lincoln style grill. And what's with the tail lights? I thought Lincoln's new design language would include full width ones. Now every Lincoln model appears to go its own way in back...ok there is some resemblance between the Navi and MKZ tail lights.
Anyway, will we be waiting until the 2013 model year for an all new MKZ? Anyone know?
#2683 of 3084 Re: 2010 Interior Pic [gregg_vw]
Sep 04, 2008 (2:33 pm)
I just saw the MKS coming at you down in GA. It was very impressive looking.
#2684 of 3084 Re: 2010 Interior Pic [gregg_vw]
Sep 05, 2008 (4:46 am)
This is really the 2009 model, just a few months late. I think they'll merge the CD3/EUCD platforms into a common global platform in 2-3 years and that's when you'll get unique sheetmetal for the Z.
With the 2010 upgrades including best in class fuel economy for the Fulans and a hybrid version I think they'll be selling all the CD3s they can build in Hermosillo, so it probably didn't make a good business case for redoing the sheetmetal mid cycle.
#2685 of 3084 Re: 2010 Interior Pic [akirby]
Sep 05, 2008 (5:08 am)
Any ideal if they will make a Hybrid MKZ or will you have to purchase the Fusion version?
#2686 of 3084 Re: 2010 Interior Pic [akirby]
Sep 05, 2008 (5:17 am)
Yes, but it is strange that given the effort to speed up product cycles, that they couldn't get a mid-cycle, minor refresh out after three model years (assuming a cycle length of six or more years). But as you say, it is "just a few months late." I wonder with Ford on the ropes how many more late starts they can afford, and "wait and see what we'll have in three years."
I think their projected products look great, but all the companies are scrambling and lots of new metal is coming all the time. A leap ahead somewhere is what they need. Unfortunately, as good as the proposed Euro products might be, others plan to match these things. I hope the Ford products are better than the competition soon, or this heavily leveraged company with a storied history will ultimately be eaten by or crushed by something else.
#2687 of 3084 Re: 2010 Interior Pic [bigt]
Sep 05, 2008 (5:39 am)
Last I heard there were no plans for a hybrid MKZ or even a 2.5L version, but considering fuel prices they may be rethinking that - I certainly would. But if that's the case I don't think you'd see it until next fall.
#2688 of 3084 Re: 2010 Interior Pic [gregg_vw]
Sep 05, 2008 (5:46 am)
Minor refresh? New 2.5L I4, totally new 2nd generation hybrid, new 6 speed trannys for the I4, new 3.0L and 3.5L V6s, 3 new front and rear clips, 2 mild dash remodels and 1 totally new interior. I think that's a little more than a mild refresh.
Considering the 2009 model should have debuted this month, the 2010 model is only 4 months late, not ideal but not that bad either. I believe the delays were due to the new powertrains.
Of course if they'd gotten it right 3 years ago then this would truly be just a mild mid cycle refresh. As it is they did just about everything except change the roof and doors.
#2689 of 3084 Re: 2010 Interior Pic [akirby]
Sep 05, 2008 (6:16 am)
That's how you see it. As I see it, engines are introduced all the time as they are available, and on the other hand, a vehicle may be completely revamped on new architecture and still use the same engine as the previous model. The 2.5 and second gen hybrid stuff is already in the 2009 Escape (so you have the weird situation of the the "new" 2008 Escape actually being much different and inferior to the identical looking 2009).
To me it is a refresh not only because the cars still look essentially the same as before, but because the 6 speed, 2.5, long in coming hp increase for the 3.0 liter, and making the 3.5 optional are all things Ford already had available, but couldn't figure out how to get them into the vehicles that needed them immediately (what with personnel changes, plant closings, fleet changes and truly poor predictions about what was going to sell in big numbers).
People still look at the outside of a car first, and then consider all the other details. I do hope this effort works for Ford, but as they found with the 500-Taurus re-do, the Expedition re-do, the Explorer re-do, the MKZ grill change (what a waste of money that was), if the visual impact of the changes do not really stand out, the new model, no matter how good, may not see any sustained sales increase (or slower decline in the case of trucks).
Really, the 2010 Fulans are just catching up with the hp and mpg and features of the top selling competition. That will have to be enough for now, and maybe with clever marketing, they will go from also-rans to top sellers. Can't see that for the MKZ though, until it can stand on its own like the MKS does.
#2690 of 3084 Re: 2010 Interior Pic [gregg_vw]
Sep 05, 2008 (8:57 am)
Actually the Fusion hybrid is different from the 09 Escape hybrid even though they use the same engine. I don't remember the details but I think the 09 escape is a gen 1.5 while the Fusion is the first true gen 2.
I agree to the casual observer there won't be drastic changes except for one key area - fuel economy. Being able to boast that they (finally) have best in class fuel economy AND a hybrid is a big deal that a lot of people will notice now.
The biggest question is whether current Fulanz owners will see these upgrades as a reason to trade in their current vehicles and get new ones, because that's where the sustained growth comes from. Everyone up until now (with a few exceptions) are first time buyers. Assuming the first time buyer rate stays the same, you get growth from repeat buyers, then 3-4 years from now you get another group of repeat buyers. That's how Accord and Camry got to 400k - I'd bet at least half of their sales are repeat buyers just looking for the new model. And I think the 2010 models have more than enough new features to do that AND to perhaps even take some market share back from the Camcordimas.
I understand your point about powertrains but I also think you underestimate the amount of resources necessary to put even an existing powertrain into a new vehicle - testing, tuning, crash certification, EPA testing, etc. If you add up the total amount of work required for the 2010 triplets and you consider Ford's thinly spread resources I think it's a very respectable job.
After all they could have just phoned in a lot of the changes but they didn't. They even changed the gauge clusters on the Fulans.
I'd agree that it's a refresh, I just don't think it's fair to call it mild given the number of changes.
#2691 of 3084 Re: 2010 Interior Pic [akirby]
Sep 05, 2008 (9:31 am)
I will be leaning towards a 2010 Fusion Hybrid unless I get blown away by the 2010 MKZ. I have a 2007 MKZ Red with Black and Satin interior with all the gadgets. Have been happy with everything except MPG.