Last post on Dec 04, 2013 at 7:12 AM
You are in the Lincoln Zephyr/MKZ
What is this discussion about?
Lincoln Zephyr, Lincoln MKZ, Sedan
#106 of 3084 An advertising campaign idea....
Jul 19, 2004 (1:07 pm)
Hey Lincoln team -
You're on a roll with that name and heritage thing. Why not take it even further? Perhaps your marketing folks can come up with a catchy advertising theme....like...bring back the guy who designed the 1936 Zephyr in ghost form in fuzzy images with cool, modern lighting, overlooking the shoulders of the current designers of the 2006 model, and have having him making suggestions and comments. Yeah...that's the ticket...that'll get the pulses zooming of the 30-something entry-level luxury buyer!
#107 of 3084 Re: Incongruous - where's the connection? [wkarson]
Jul 19, 2004 (2:20 pm)
Well, the connection (as I stated previously) is that the new Zephyr will be an entry level Lincoln, as the 36 Zephyr was. Not defending the choice of the name here, but that's the connection, since you asked.
I hate the thoughts that Lincoln is ok with becoming competition for Buick though....especially with what Buick has now become.
Jul 19, 2004 (4:50 pm)
Let's keep in mind, Buick yet doesn't have a clear path. They are turning it into the price segment that Cadillac will be abandoning.... While Cadillac goes upwards to fight the upper echelon vehicles MB, BMW, JAG, etc. Thing is, it didn't work for Cadillac because their buyer's were expecting there "luxury" vehicles to have RWD, which is now why they are reverting. Now Buick will stick to that path, but again... With FWD ? So what's the point ?
Just another reason to push Cadillac upwards, so GM doesn't have as many brands competing in the same field price wise... (Pontiac, Saturn, Chevy). Saab already has a clear path (copies of Subaru's), Suzuki (rebadged Daewoos), Isuzu (on ICU), etc.
Ford has better direction/plans for their brands. While it's fuzzy sometimes (because as previously mentioned)... each time a new management comes in, new ideas come up. Therefore, plans are altered. And let's take an example of how Ford has been able to keep each brand distictive. Volvo, Jaguar, LandRover, AstonMartin.... Unlike GM who's coming up with Saabaru, Isulet, and Suzuwoo.
Ford has better plans for Lincoln now, than they did 2 years ago... And it'll continue with the introduction of 5 more vehicles within the next 3 years. Just takes time....
#109 of 3084 Re: Incongruous - where's the connection? [nvbanker]
Jul 19, 2004 (9:33 pm)
nvbanker, I completely understand where you were coming from w/ the 1936 Zephyr comparo & point. Good points to be sure, and I agree w/ you on all counts. Good stuff.
ANT14, again, I agree that GM is lost somewhere in the wilderness. No direction. No passion. Way too big for their own good. Cut three divisions (1. Saturn, a joke anyways, and a bad one at that; 2. Pontiac, badge engineering at its very worst; 3. Chevy/GMC truck, few real differences any longer) and simplify the profile. Witness Toyota (Scion on the bottom, Toyota doing the bulk of the work, Lexus the premium brand), where from only three divisions they manage to offer five SUV's and two trucks, as well as all the cars and hybrids you can eat. And they rock like no tomorrow. Hey, I'm not making the story up...the marketplace does.
Sorry, I don't want to get too far off the track there. Let's get back to this particular Lincoln Zephyr concept. Somewhere in this thread, you'll note that one gentleman said his wife finds the FWD to be an advantage -- and that's great! Remember, FWD hasn't made it in this auto-world because no one buys it. To the contrary...people buy tons of FWD vehicles, and many of the offerings out there are very fine machines. However, if Lincoln wants the Zephyr to be a hit, they're keenly aware that in this league, perception is reality, and reality demands RWD at best, or AWD at minimum. And please, let's credit Ford for realizing this and doing something about it -- at least in concept form. Production trim may be entirely a different thing, so as ANT14 pointed out a while back, let the collective auto world hold their breath until the car debuts, then feel free to judge. Or as I like to say, "Let the people judge, and they will." People vote w/ their dollars. They're the only ones who matter in this vote, and Lincoln hopes that my personal demographic is in that crosshair.
Lincoln, I say, nice conept, finely executed. Period.
#110 of 3084 With FWD ? So what's the point ? ANT
Jul 20, 2004 (4:27 pm)
I always like your arguments, ANT - but I have the same concern about Lincoln, as what they seem to be planning for new product is also FWD or AWD, yet Cadillac finally acknowledged that large FWD sedans don't compete with the big boys.
I guess survival of the brand is first, then refinement of the mission can come second. Not sure if there's a sedan in there for me or not yet - we'll have to see what the next Town Car or equivalent becomes.
Jul 20, 2004 (4:53 pm)
Personally, anything over 220HP/220TQ should be placed upon a RWD vehicle (in most cases). Once your in the mid/upper 200's range FWD becomes an obstacle as torque steer possess an issue. That's where RWD is much more beneficial. Although an issue for those in snowbelt areas, RWD might be a concern for them. To quell their concerns, stability control systems are able to compensate. Next up, AWD.
Not all AWD systems are the same, and depending upon the system, it can magnify or delute the particular vehicles potential. European Ford Mondeo is a good example...A FWD vehicle. It's platform cousin the Jag X-type utilizes permanent AWD with RWD bias, which allows this original FWD platform, to perform as a RWD/AWD performer.
As for Lincoln much will depending upon the AWD system they'll use. (All are vastly different from one another)... If Ford decides to use a permanent AWD system without the fuel penalties, then it'll be better than RWD, while allowing them to use an already safe/known platform...
Here's an interesting tidbit, Ford produces the highest number of RWD vehicles in the world. Ford produces the highest number of 4x4/AWD vehicles, in the world.
Jul 20, 2004 (11:58 pm)
Good to know. The Zephyr probably isn't my cup 0 tea, but I'd like to stay with Lincoln. They've been good to me, and the dealer is a friend. I'll probably do another Navigator in 18 months.
Jul 21, 2004 (2:27 pm)
That is remarkable, but then again, I love my dealer too.
#115 of 3084 Some suggestions for the lincoln team
Jul 25, 2004 (2:59 pm)
Some suggestions for Lincoln from a guy in the urban 'demographic sweet spot' as somebody here put it. I tend towards imports but have owned a domestic car before. Virtually all of my friends buy imports. I can only think of one or two who drive a Saturn Ion (the poorest friend) or who drive an Escape (the outdoorsy friend)
I can tell you that before I buy a domestic luxury car, the perceived quality (the quality of the switches, and leather etc.) inside the car is going to have to be top-notch- Audi-like, let's say. If there isn't a reason for me to switch to domestics, I'm not, and neither will any of my friends. I like the outside of the car, but the inside isn't a kind of retro I find cool. Retro is fine for clothes that wear out after a year but it gets old fast. I might like it for a week but I would never buy it for every day use.
Also, there are a lot of cars in the $30K range which now are players that I would consider. For example, Passat TDI which gets 38 miles to the gallon highway (which I wouldn't have even considered a few years ago- gas mileage meant nothing to me then) or the new Subaru Legacy- these are all in the 30K range and offer a unique package which differentiates you from everyone else. All of these will be competing against Lincoln's Z-car.
One last word- if corporate would let you build a wagon, do it. I think there is a market for an upscale wagon- many of my buddies are now driving outbacks but are moving upscale now.