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Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions What type of hybrid should I buy? 
453 messages, Last post on Aug 19, 2005 at 6:05 PM
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smaller cars - usual sporty models and mainly coupes and hatchbacks. I would, however, prioritize a hybrid, even at a 5-10% price premium over the gas counterpart. But as of yet I have not seen any plans by any carmaker to bring a sporty car to the hybrid table. There have been several interesting concepts, though, including the Eclipse currently making the rounds, the Volta from Toyota, and that B-something-or-other from Subaru. Any of those that can come in around $25K in current dollars would be on my short list. The Subaru would need a hardtop version, though...do I have any other wishes? No, that is it for now! 
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Don't count out Nissan in Hybrid. I find their Super Motor very interesting. I wonder if Toyota license Nissan HSD to get access to Super Motor technology. Here is piece from http://www.sae.org/automag/globalvehicles/12-2003/1-111-12-8.pdf "One is a compact lithium-ion battery employing a laminated cell in place of conventional cylindrical or rectangular cassette types. Typically, laminated cells would require larger terminals because of the battery type’s high output, and sealing would also become an issue due to the gas produced by repeated charging and discharging. Nissan reports that it has successfully solved these two major issues. Laminated cells may be stacked or laid flat. The short and tall Effis may seat up to 3.5 occupants (three adults and a child) or two adults and luggage. The thin, compact, lithium-ion battery pack is located under a flat floor. The other Nissan technology is the Super Motor, which employs two coaxial rotors within the single casing. A new technique of applying compound currents to the electromagnets and inner and outer rotors has been perfected, according to Nissan. One Super Motor each at the front and rear with the rotors controlled independently can drive all wheels. One Super Motor can also function as a propulsion motor and a generator, as in a hybrid or fuel-cell vehicle." Dennis |
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Did you know their were 2 types? CONE & BELT is the type of CVT in the Honda hybrids. It provides an infinite gearing ratio, allowing flexibility that fixed gears cannot. That enables the gas engine to run more efficiently, in concert with an electric propulsion-motor, which saves gas. That type of works well for a single motor system, and is what most people are familiar with. The other type is what is used to support two different types of motors at the same time. It is a relatively new design which features a power-split design, rather than one that supports tension adjustments. PLANETARY is the type of CVT in the Toyota/Lexus hybrids. It too provides an infinite gearing ratio to support gas engine and electric propulsion-motor use; however, the ability to also support a generator-motor at the same time is available. This alleviates the burden on the battery-pack, allowing electricity to be supplied on-the-fly from the engine instead. It also enables the ability to propel the vehicle without the engine at all, using nothing but electricity from the battery-pack. JOHN |
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HSD transmission is an amazing work of art. The car is always in the top gear and lowest gear at the same time! You might be wondering how can it be? HSD can achieve this because there is only one gear ratio(permanently engaged). C&D Test Results: Prius Top-gear acceleration 30–50 mph 5.5 50–70 mph 7.9 BMW 530I Top-gear acceleration 30-50 mph: 13.3 50-70 mph: 12.3 Since Prius ECVT has no gear to shift, the difference is great. Dennis |
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Another amazing aspect is the size itself. Take a moment now to look at your hand. The Planetary CVT is the size (height, width, and length) of the average adults palm. That's it! It really surprised me to discover the heart of the hybrid system was so small. JOHN |
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the planetary gear in the Prius is not a CVT in and of itself. The planetary gear and electric drive TOGETHER provide drive ratio adjustment between the ICE and output shaft. the size and weight of the planetary gear alone is meaningless as a comparison to other transmission types. And a point of clarification: the Van Doorne cone & belt CVT to which John alludes above operates with belts in COMPRESSION, not tension. |
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"The planetary gear and electric drive TOGETHER provide drive ratio adjustment between the ICE and output shaft" You have a point there but the power of the electric drive(MG1) gets outputed to the drive shaft anyway. Therefore, MG1 isn't there just to achieve ECVT functionality. Dennis |
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My post from up to the chore board: "One green leaf symbol is 50 Watts Hour. This means, it is 18KW for 10 seconds. I am guessing Prius can accelerate up to 30 MPH with 18KW in 10 seconds. It is what a green leaf can get you. I do not know how much braking it takes to generate one green leaf. Maybe a Prius owner can do a test. If a Prius can generate a green leaf from 60MPH to stop then, regenerative braking energy recyclablity efficiency would be 50%, since it can re accelerate the car back to 30MPH" My question to the Prius owners with experience is that, can a gentle stop from 60 MPH get you a green leaf? 50WH can provide 18 seconds of constant 10KW power. If you stealth drive, can you get up to 30 MPH in 18 seconds? Is my estimate of what a captured 50 WH can do realistic? Dennis |
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If you are comparing a manual shift BMW530 and leaving it it 5th or 6th , yes the times will be slower. A person driving a manual shift would obviously downshift. Top gear acceleration has always been misleading for manual shift cars. Why not be fair and post the same acceleration times for a automatic BMW 530. My vote for a hybrid is the new upcoming Honda Accord Hybrid. Power, performance, handling and very good miles per gallon. |
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> the planetary gear in the Prius is not a CVT in and of itself. Actually, it isn't a transmission at all. There really aren't any gears and nothing ever shifts, everything is permanently engaged. It is nothing but a power-split device, using carriers to distribution thrust. But since virtually no one knows what a PSD is or understands the benefit of such a design, Toyota just chose to use the more familiar CVT label instead. JOHN |
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