Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions What type of hybrid should I buy? 
453 messages, Last post on Aug 19, 2005 at 6:05 PM
You are in the Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer
This discussion is ARCHIVED. To reactivate the discussion, post a request in the Lost? Ask the Hybrids Host for directions! discussion.
|
HSD (Hybrid Synergy Drive) is the system currently available only in Prius. Later this year, it will also be available in a SUV... due to the flexibility the design offers. Different size engines & motors & battery-packs can be attached to HSD, allowing for a variety of configurations. The 2001-2003 model Prius used a 1.5 liter engine with 33kW motor and a 274volt battery-pack. The 2004+ model Prius uses a 1.5 liter engine with a 50kW motor and a 204volt battery-pack, along with an inverter to increase the electricity to 500volts. There is a 2004 model Prius used for racing. The low-emission, fuel-efficient Atkinson-Miller type engine was replaced with a standard Otto type engine, the one used in Echo. That change increased both the available horsepower and the maximum electricity available (via the on-the-fly generator). This was accomplished without the need to alter the HSD system at all. The original motor & battery-pack continued to be used, as is. The catch was that the fuel-efficiency dropped and the emissions increased. But it worked well for racing. When HSD is introduced in a SUV, the configuration will put more emphasis on power and less on efficiency & emissions. This will result in a hybrid that can actually out-accelerate its traditional engine-only counterpart, yet still save some gas and reduce some emissions. The SUV setup uses a 120kW motor in front and a secondary 50kW motor in back. This not only supplies greater power, it also demonstrates the potential of HSD design by providing 4-wheel drive. JOHN |
|
| A car like a Lotus Elise for under $20k sounds like a winner. Personally I'd like my next daily driver to have the looks, performance, and features of a BMW 330i, get over 100 mpg, PZEV emissions, and cost under $15k. I'll need a new car by the fall of '06 so I hope there's something like that available by then. | |
|
I'm like Daysailer. I'll buy the vehicle that meets my criteria whether it's a hybrid or not. However, I'm guessing that most ICE designs in the next few years won't match the hybrids for both economy and emissions at the same time. And the "type" of hybrid doesn't mean squat. If an assist type can do the job of a full hybrid, then I'm all for it. As for the vehicle class, I expect my next purchases will be a compact and a mid-size utility vehicle. |
|
|
|
smaller cars - usual sporty models and mainly coupes and hatchbacks. I would, however, prioritize a hybrid, even at a 5-10% price premium over the gas counterpart. But as of yet I have not seen any plans by any carmaker to bring a sporty car to the hybrid table. There have been several interesting concepts, though, including the Eclipse currently making the rounds, the Volta from Toyota, and that B-something-or-other from Subaru. Any of those that can come in around $25K in current dollars would be on my short list. The Subaru would need a hardtop version, though...do I have any other wishes? No, that is it for now! 
|
|
|
|
|
Don't count out Nissan in Hybrid. I find their Super Motor very interesting. I wonder if Toyota license Nissan HSD to get access to Super Motor technology. Here is piece from http://www.sae.org/automag/globalvehicles/12-2003/1-111-12-8.pdf "One is a compact lithium-ion battery employing a laminated cell in place of conventional cylindrical or rectangular cassette types. Typically, laminated cells would require larger terminals because of the battery type’s high output, and sealing would also become an issue due to the gas produced by repeated charging and discharging. Nissan reports that it has successfully solved these two major issues. Laminated cells may be stacked or laid flat. The short and tall Effis may seat up to 3.5 occupants (three adults and a child) or two adults and luggage. The thin, compact, lithium-ion battery pack is located under a flat floor. The other Nissan technology is the Super Motor, which employs two coaxial rotors within the single casing. A new technique of applying compound currents to the electromagnets and inner and outer rotors has been perfected, according to Nissan. One Super Motor each at the front and rear with the rotors controlled independently can drive all wheels. One Super Motor can also function as a propulsion motor and a generator, as in a hybrid or fuel-cell vehicle." Dennis |
|
|
Did you know their were 2 types? CONE & BELT is the type of CVT in the Honda hybrids. It provides an infinite gearing ratio, allowing flexibility that fixed gears cannot. That enables the gas engine to run more efficiently, in concert with an electric propulsion-motor, which saves gas. That type of works well for a single motor system, and is what most people are familiar with. The other type is what is used to support two different types of motors at the same time. It is a relatively new design which features a power-split design, rather than one that supports tension adjustments. PLANETARY is the type of CVT in the Toyota/Lexus hybrids. It too provides an infinite gearing ratio to support gas engine and electric propulsion-motor use; however, the ability to also support a generator-motor at the same time is available. This alleviates the burden on the battery-pack, allowing electricity to be supplied on-the-fly from the engine instead. It also enables the ability to propel the vehicle without the engine at all, using nothing but electricity from the battery-pack. JOHN |
|
|
|
|
HSD transmission is an amazing work of art. The car is always in the top gear and lowest gear at the same time! You might be wondering how can it be? HSD can achieve this because there is only one gear ratio(permanently engaged). C&D Test Results: Prius Top-gear acceleration 30–50 mph 5.5 50–70 mph 7.9 BMW 530I Top-gear acceleration 30-50 mph: 13.3 50-70 mph: 12.3 Since Prius ECVT has no gear to shift, the difference is great. Dennis |
|
|
Another amazing aspect is the size itself. Take a moment now to look at your hand. The Planetary CVT is the size (height, width, and length) of the average adults palm. That's it! It really surprised me to discover the heart of the hybrid system was so small. JOHN |
|
|
the planetary gear in the Prius is not a CVT in and of itself. The planetary gear and electric drive TOGETHER provide drive ratio adjustment between the ICE and output shaft. the size and weight of the planetary gear alone is meaningless as a comparison to other transmission types. And a point of clarification: the Van Doorne cone & belt CVT to which John alludes above operates with belts in COMPRESSION, not tension. |
|
|
|
|
"The planetary gear and electric drive TOGETHER provide drive ratio adjustment between the ICE and output shaft" You have a point there but the power of the electric drive(MG1) gets outputed to the drive shaft anyway. Therefore, MG1 isn't there just to achieve ECVT functionality. Dennis |
|
You are here:
Forums
Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions What type of hybrid should I buy?
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
Today's Chats
