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Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions What type of hybrid should I buy? 
453 messages, Last post on Aug 19, 2005 at 6:05 PM
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what you perhaps don't realize: "If price point is the only criteria then it seems an economical ; decontented Prius would have been offered." is that the $20K Prius IS the economical decontented version, which is why package 9 costs almost $6000 and puts back in stuff that is already standard on the $20K Camry (plus adding other stuff). Those hybrid guts cost enough to have to make deep cuts to bring the car to $20K for base price. The NAV and Smart Entry you mention are not standard. But the 2004 is definitely a better value than the "classic" Prius if only for its much larger passenger and cargo capacity. |
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Toyota lost money on the classic Prius and makes very little on the current Prius. This is not true. The fact that the classic Prius was a money-maker during the latter stages of its life has been well documented in the press. And how much is "very little"? This was said of the Prius by some posters even before Toyota raised the base price by $300. So take what the profit was before and add $300. Is that still "very little"? Any profit on a car in its first year of a redesign is pretty good IMO--there's the development and tooling costs to recoup. Also, it is common in the auto industry for automakers to offer smaller, fuel-efficient cars to draw buyers into dealerships and to keep up their CAFE scores. Today's Prius buyer could be tomorrow's RX400h or Sienna hybrid buyer. |
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| I just don't believe Toyota when they say they make money on the Prius. | |
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| criminal for them to lie about it? I mean, they have a board of stockholders to account to just like any other corporation... | |
| ...it's only criminal if they lie about the profits of the corporation in general (or it's individual companies), not about an individual product line. Also, it's pretty easy to play games with numbers in order to make a statement that, while not exactly a lie, isn't in the same ballpark as the truth either. | |
| using accounting as a strategic tool. There are at least two sets of books Toyota has to report on. One is reported profit and the other is actual expenses. If you write off future gains from current expenses and discount government subsidies it can make the profit look much better to the public and the press. Sometimes the government might allow you to claim all the R&D as a tax write off. It is hard to say how a hybrid could be produced with much more expensive parts and still make a profit if on the same line you are making conventional cars, using the same assembly methods and those cars are only making a small profit because of volume. That isn't lying, as pointed out, because you only have to show net profit to the corporations board, not even the stock holders get all the information. | |
Don't forget tonight's member-to-member chat - it's open mic night, so come and discuss whatever's on your mind.  http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/townhallchat.html 6-7pm PT/9-10pm ET. Drop by for live chat with other members. Hope you can join us! kirstie_h Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host |
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Japanese government helped Toyota out, the same way Clinton administration used our tax dollars for the 70 MPG Super Car project. The result was concept Ford Prodigy, GM Precept, and I forgot the other one. Dennis |
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It is hard to say how a hybrid could be produced with much more expensive parts and still make a profit if on the same line you are making conventional cars, using the same assembly methods and those cars are only making a small profit because of volume. I've never seen numbers on the cost of a conventional ICE drivetrain, like Toyota's VVT-i 4-cylinder from the Camry, with a 4- or 5-speed automatic tranny, compared to the costs of making the HSD powertrain in the Prius--including battery. Anyone know what the difference is? After all, the HSD powertrain are the only significant mechanical difference in the cars. And with the low prices of CRTs and computer chips, it's possible the Prius' controls and "by wire" technology is actually less costly than standard mechanical or electro-mechanical controls. |
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Hi Backy: ___Although the following is loaded with extrapolations and goes beyond any amount of detail I have ever read on the economics of a Hybrid vs. std. ICE anywhere else, you may want to take a look at pages 111 – 117. I think the 04 Prius blew some of their conclusions out of the water (the HSD has to be much less costly then a std. automatic transmission) but if the prices of the Inverter, Power electronics, and the pack itself holds true to form, the Hybrid may never be cost effective. http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/TA/244.pdf ___Good Luck ___Wayne R. Gerdes
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