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Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions What type of hybrid should I buy? 
453 messages, Last post on Aug 19, 2005 at 6:05 PM
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The Lexus RX400H was roped off looke like any other Lexus RX/ 270 horsepower with milaage ratings of 31 city and 36 highway. Interesting to not that the City is no longer higher than the highway like the Prius. looked at and sat in the Prius, It has a lot of plastic some of it feels cheap, but a pretty good car. Honda didn't have a clue about the hybrid Accord. Miles per gallon and "grren" cars was not the overwhelming falvor of the show. The Lexus concept HPX was awesome with crystal LED lights. The best cars were the Saleenes, although not necessarily Hybrids, good mileage or "green". But the hal a millon dollar S7 is a beauty to behold. New Scions are a possibility. A little cheap inside, but lots of standard features at a less than $17K fully loaded. Performance was in! Ford had soime concept cars: new Mustang GT roped off, GT40 on a platform. Dodn't see any Hybrid. Good show lots of cars, 660. Probably 15-20 future cars and concept cars. |
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| For once I am going to have to agree with Wayne. I think the Mazda 3 is a great alternative to those wanting a low emissions vehicle. The waiting list for the Prius is out of hand now. Granted you won't get the mileage you get in a Prius (I estimate mid 20's avg city/highway), but you are getting a fantastic PZEV vehicle with a great engine. Unfortunately when you price it out with options you can get in a Prius, the price goes up quite a bit. I priced one on Emunds and it priced out at 22k. I did add xenons, auto and nav but that is still 3k LESS than a fully priced Prius, BUT you are NOT getting VSC, traction control, smart entry exit and a few other goodies. It seems as if they're comparable in price. The Prius will get double the mileage BUT the Mazda would be more fun to drive. Space is virtually the same. Looks are subjective. I also believe the Mazda is based on the same chassis as the new Volvo S40. If it had VSC, I'd sell my Prius for what I paid for it. Maybe next year. | |
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Hi Midnightcowboy: ___31/36 city/hwy for the RXh400 is something special. It beats what has been posted about the Highlander hybrid at 27.x something combined by quite a margin! Ford or Honda didn’t even mention the Escape or Accord Hybrid? I sure wish I knew what was up with those two … ___Djasonw, I am glad you liked the Mazda contingent. I love the interiors but the prices scare me off as well … ___Good Luck ___Wayne R. Gerdes |
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Just got back from a trip to Shelby, NC, 1453 mile with an average MPG of 48.5661. This included going over the mountains on I-81 & I-77 between Va and NC, and trip to Charlotte. I drove the car like any other car, no super mileage tricks like constant load, or tailgating( correction drafting). Speed was with traffic 65 to 75 mph. I had no problem getting on the highway, the Prius got up to speed without any problems. I got home and was not as tired as when I made the same trip in a Maxima. Went to lunch with 5 adults in the car, no one felt that the car was small or that they did not have enough room. Felt the side winds today is the only complaint that I had. |
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I also hit the Houston show tonight. No hybrid Highlander--the woman who was working the Prius stand told me they had one in Dallas, but not here. However, she added, there was a Highlander Limited on the floor, and she said there were exactly two differences--under the hood (duh), and on the dash, where the Highlander would have the same display as the Prius. She didn't know the MPG numbers, but said they were similar to the 400h, so I'm really hoping for 31/36 or even 28/33... I was quite impressed with the Prius; it's much bigger than I thought it would be. Fairly comfortable and functional. Seemed kind of in between the true midsize sedans (Accord, Camry, etc.) and the larger compacts (Mazda 3, Corolla). As midnightcowboy mentioned, the Lexus 400h was roped off, and Honda was clueless about hybrids. "Uhh, I think we make a Civic with one of those battery things in it." Gee, thanks. Ford had a mention of the Escape hybrid, but all the attention at Ford was on the Mustang GT and the GT40 and nobody around there had anything to say about the Escape. Oh, and a side comment to djasonw: Yes, the Mazda 3 and the Volvo S40 are based on the same platform. Other than the bigger 5-cyl Volvo engine, I can't figure out why the Volvo is a full $10K more than the Mazda. Volvo and Mazda were right next to each other at this show and I went back and forth a couple times and I really, really don't get it. Oh, well, the Volvo probably has VSC, it being a Volvo and all. Not sure one extra cylinder and VSC together adds up to 10K. Also, the interior ergonomics on the control console (radio/climate) in the Volvo is AWFUL. Totally senseless. Pricing on the Mazda 3 is really a function of the amount of stuff you get on it. You can get a base 3i sedan with A/C & ABS for $16.5K sticker, and I have found Mazda dealers more willing to go below sticker than Toyota or Honda dealers. That's not so bad. Now, that would be a great car to get a hybrid in it! My wife has her heart set on an '06 hybrid Highlander, though... |
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someone said the Mazda3 is PZEV - I wasn't aware of this - is it really? And speaking of Mazda, when they will have their first hybrid? Will they shirt-tail off Ford and have a hybrid Tribute by Christmas? I wouldn't mind seeing that. Futura (currently being renamed) is Ford's next planned hybrid, if memory serves. And they might hybridize the 500 too, although that is much more speculation than anything else. All of Ford's hybrid plans have been on hold for so long while they finished the Escape, who knows what they really are today. I will bet the HL hybrid and RX400H will have the same EPA figures - HL is a little taller, yes, but they will have identical powertrains! Maybe a point or two lower to account for the extra wind resistance in the HL. Eight months into the launch, there is still a six month waiting list for Prius (there was a little consumer piece on it on the news tonight, and that was mentioned)...there must be something about these durn hybrids that appeals to the consumer!  HCH, on the other hand, is in plentiful supply. When CR gets about the same mileage in the hybrid as in the regular version, I can understand why. I do wonder what the mileage figures will be for the Accord hybrid in the fall. Too bad Honda quit making Insight. I wonder what the next production gas car (not diesel) will be that gets high-60s mpg. |
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Interesting that you mention 30 years of EV development. Just last weekend I stumbled on an article that I had clipped in 1972 from the IEEE Spectrum (the journal of the Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers). The Article was promoting EV development and assumed that by 1980 there would be breakthroughs in battery technology, by 1985 EVs would be widely available and even allowed the possibility that ALL cars would be EV by 2000. Of course, the miracle battery did not materialize and 30 years of development has resulted in EVs little more practical than in 1972, owing more to solid state control technology than to magical batteries. Hybrid technology has far more promise since it does not depend on future science miracles to produce a practical vehicle that approaches economic reason. Its energy storage requirements are much less and shorter term and can be accommodated by the modest storage technologies presently available, albeit with some cost premium vis a vis conventional vehicles. It remains to be seen whether fuel cell vehicles will fare better than battery EVs, since they are also dependent on future science, not just in fuel cells but more daunting, a practical means to produce hydrogen in large quantities. For now, If I were a betting man, I'd bet on hybrids. |
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Shows true milage of Hybrids. Callsic Prius, New Prius, 5-speed Insight, CVT Civic Hybrid Also show how performance declines between full-charge and minimal charge. Very interesting how much the Prius drops ; don't have magazine with me but it seems like it went from 0-60 in 10.2 to 14.8 Just be awre that when you accelrate in the Prius the electric motor (MG2) derives most of its power from the batteries and they will discharge even though the MG1 is still acting a a genrator anfd providing some power to MG2 and some power to the battery. |
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Practical or impractical the goal was to develop some form of alternative vehicle. They simply decided to try EVs. Hybrids are a fine compromise if you have no intention of reaching the goal in the first place. But if I am going to use petroleum anyway is it the best method? Can lighter more fuel efficient ICE cars be manufactured that are less complicated than a two motor vehicle? I don't know but I have a suspicion that it is very possible. It would be different if this were something new but as you well know Diesel trains have used a ICE engine to provide power to an electric motor for more years than many posters in this room have been alive. As for now? I would have to wait and see if the new hybrids deliver the performance numbers they are promising on the drawing boards. The current ones are both too close to make a difference to me. If I wanted a Hybrid simply to have a hybrid I could toss a coin. Honda is heads Toyota is tails. Both get better fuel mileage than what I now have. Not several thousand dollars worth to justify the mileage difference but better anyway. Neither perform as well as any car I now own nor do they climb the mountain road to my house at a pace I am used to. So to me the only hope is the future and I have to see it before I'll buy it. The disappointing thing is the giving up on EVs in my opinion for what everyone knows is an interim motivation source. They want fuel cells in the worst way and if indeed they are successful hybrids will be simply a foot note in automotive history. But when fuel cells arrive will we be offered another slow moving vehicle that corners like a UPS truck? I think the reasoning will be that the consumers fell for it once so it is worth another try. As for me I would pull for synthetic fuel and a simplified light weight vehicle. We could be free from foreign oil and we wouldn't all have to learn to drive like old people. Even when we are old people. *S* |
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that has no promise of realization is quixotic and a waste of resources. An electric vehicle will not be a viable alternative to the ICE until a power source or storage medium of adequate energy & power density is developed. The most exotic of batteries have failed miserably and the future looks no better. Whether fuel cells can be developed with the requisite densities while providing reliability at reasonable cost remains to be seen, but I'll not hold my breath. You know that I favor smaller, lighter, more efficient cars and wish that the market would embrace that concept. But a smaller, ligther hybrid still has the potential to be more efficient than a similar ICE-only vehicle, whatever thermal cycle is used for the ICE. The only unanswered question is whether the hybrid will achieve economic viability (performance issues are a matter of design objectives). I don't share your disappointment in the "giving up" on EV's, I think that it is way overdue as reflection on the article that I mentioned and the dismal lack of EV progress suggests. |
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