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Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions What type of hybrid should I buy? 
453 messages, Last post on Aug 19, 2005 at 6:05 PM
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What is unnatural about noise from a small 4-cylinder engine on hard acceleration? BTW, anyone know if Ford is planning a hybrid version of the Focus, following their hybrid debut with the Escape? Using the hybrid technology they have licensed from Toyota? |
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Hi Backy: http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2310.shtml But push it hard, and the tiny 4-cylinder engine does show a noisy side. ___I haven’t read that the Focus will ever be a Hybrid? Why would anyone want to pay $2,500 - $4,000 more and ruin its performance for maybe 10 - 15 mpg at best? Unless of course it were to make it to 60 in less then 7 seconds instead of ~ 8 and attain the mileage of many Hybrid’s when Hybridized? It still wouldn’t be worth it even with the price of gas what it is today! ___Good Luck ___Wayne R. Gerdes |
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So "a noisy side" = "an unnatural raucous"? Do you know of any `1.5L gas engines that don't get noisy when revved hard? I don't. How do you know a hybrid Focus would cost $2500-$4000 more than a standard Focus? Look at the Prius for example. It has quite a few features standard that the base Focus does not, e.g. ABS/traction control, premium cloth interior and carpeting, video display, steering-wheel controls for stereo and climate control, automatic climate control, alloy wheels, heated side mirrors, rear center armrest, remote keyless entry, and cruise control. Maybe Ford could apply HSD to a basic Focus and come up with an economy hybrid for under $15k that gets 20+ mpg more than the ICE Focus (based on CR's tests of the Focus and Prius). Heck, they might even throw in a seat height adjuster (but I hope they redesign it first). |
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I remember reading somewhere that since BMW and Mercedes implemented dynamic stability control in their cars, accidents have been reduced significantly. Obviously these stats were yielded from Europe and NOT the US. I won't buy ANY car without VSC, hence my refusal to buy a Focus. I do LOVE the look of the ZX3 but I want the following: VSC Navigation Xenons Smart Entry Steering wheel buttons for A/C, radio etc larger cargo area Traction control at LEAST 40 MPG Proven Toyota reliability (CR rates the Prius reliability as outstanding, not so for the Ford) Side curtain airbags CVT (love that feature) Electric A/C (hate 4 cyl cars that bog down with A/C on ..not so in the Prius) Gotta run.. my friends and I are test driving a Mazda 3 soon Let me know when it's available. |
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Hi Backy: ___The 1.5 L Prius motor is louder then the 2.3 L Focus engine when accelerating hard. The Prius however is quieter when coasting and when it is in stealth mode … At highway speeds, they sound about the same to me? ___You asked why would a Focus w/ a Hybrid Drivetrain cost $2,500 - $4,000 more? All you have to do is look up the price of a 97 - 04 Prius battery pack to see why. How about the MG Sets and controllers added into the Hybrid’s drivetrain … ___What comes std. on the “base” Prius vs. what comes on a “loaded” Focus that costs ~ $4,500 less? Not much. If you are speaking of a “base” Focus, they can be purchased for < $10K! Can you imagine purchasing an 04 Prius without the LCD, Power windows, locks, mirrors, ABS, steering wheel controls, alloy wheels, remote keyless entry, and Cruise for ~ $10,000? If so, I would say that is a great value. Unfortunately, you can’t. Did you really want to compare a “base” Focus that costs less then ½ of that of a base Prius? I am comparing a “loaded” Focus that is still ~ $4,500 less then the “base” Prius and as much as $11,000 less then a Prius when fully loaded. ___And on to the options … What does the LCD do for you? Tell you where the power is coming from? Do you think that will help you over the next 150,000 miles. If you are driving like a normal car it won’t other then drag your attention from the road to look over at the center mounted display. We have one in one of our vehicles and it isn’t good for much. Toyota should have placed the one item fuel consumption game gauge in the front so it can be used on a continuous basis. To bad they didn’t. ___Steering wheel controls on the Prius are great! I could only wish the Focus had as many of the steering wheel mounted controls as the Prius does. ___ABS/traction control. ABS is included in the Ford Focus as priced above. Traction control, probably next year  ___Premium cloth interior and carpeting? In comparison to a leather equipped interior in the Ford Focus? Some Lexus’ come with a lower cost “option” of cloth interior and most purchasers wouldn’t even consider the thought of downgrading. You would be? ___Alloy wheels? The Focus Premium comes std. with 16” s, not 15’s. ___Heated side mirrors, remote keyless entry, and cruise control. Yes, the Ford Focus comes with them as well. No rear center arm rest however. ___C/D’s observed mpg results: 04 Prius: 42 mpg 04 Focus Wagon: 27 mpg ___And with that, the Focus still out handles, still out accelerates, still has better performance in every performance attribute one can think of other then mpg, has more driver comfort options like heated and height adjustable leather seats and a telescopic wheel, an MP3 player, and now comes with a 5 Yr./50,000 mile bumper to bumper extended warranty, and a Dell PC here near Chicago for at least $4,500 less then the “base” Prius. ___On a similar note, does the 04 Prius not allow heated air to come from the center vents but only the sides? ___Good Luck ___Wayne R. Gerdes |
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Hi Djasonw: ___To bad the Mazda and Ford contingents don’t come with VSC … The Mazda interiors look very nice indeed. ___NAVI, maybe you might want to take a look at a PDA based solution for that instead. NAVI in many lux OEM’s come in at ~ $1,500 - $2,000 extra. Most of the Navtech maps they use are between 1 and 3 years old right off the show room floor and some will not ever be updated. Those that can usually cost > $200 to upgrade and the upgrades are to maps usually 1 to 3 years old again. They are also not available in quarter over quarter, semi-annually, or in some cases, year over year but much more random. I have read that Lexus is doing a bit better job then Acura but they both stink. In the Lexus’, you cannot view the map while driving IIRC … I don’t know about the Prius but I it might be the same? Someone else will have to correct me in that regard. The PDA based solution I use in all my automobiles uses the same Navtech maps and has even more POI’s but the maps are currently just a few months old compared to 1 - 3 years old maps that you will be using in an OEM Navtech based solution. I update them ~ every 6 months for less then $100 and that includes a newer program as well. Here is an interesting anecdote. Why not walk into your local Walmart and pick up a Rand McNally Road Atlas from the year 2001. Let’s make it better. Find one from the year 2003? Now why do you think you couldn’t find those particular years? It wouldn’t have anything to do with the fact they are outdated already, could it? ___HID Xenon’s can be added to most vehicles for ~ $350.00. SE/SS is really neat. Larger cargo area? 04 ZX5 = 18.6 cu. ft./04 Prius = 16.1 cu. ft. At least 40 mpg? You seem to forget that 15 - 20 mpg difference costs you ~ $11,000. The way you equipped the Prius anyway? Reliability … Doesn’t CR rate the 04 Focus as better then average now? The latest longer bumper to bumper warranty offer looks very nice. Side curtains … Very nice indeed. Electric A/C because you hate 4 cylinder cars that bog down? You are already driving one of the slowest 4 cylinder cars on the road! Any PZEV based Focus with its A/C on will still out perform a Prius with its A/C on or not and that even includes being pushed by a 30 mph tail wind. ___I have read of some HCH owners picking up their Hybrid’s in the $18K range if that helps? I don’t know how but it is another outlet instead of a $26,000 + 04 Prius. ___Good Luck ___Wayne R. Gerdes |
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I see you missed (or chose to ignore) the intent of my last post entirely. It was about the possibility of Ford using the Focus as a platform to bring an economy-priced hybrid to market. But I'll give up trying to explain it lest we get into another 50-post chain about the glories of the Focus. Why don't you start a board ala "Focus ZX5: 5-door Hatchback Value Champ" and you can then talk all you want about how great a value you think the Focus is against not only the Prius, but all other 5-door hatchbacks (and good luck trying to show the Focus' value proposition against some of those). Re figures from CR, you might want to recheck those. In their latest two issues, they show the Prius at 44 mpg overall in their tests and the Focus at 24 mpg. That was with the Zetec engine and automatic I believe. I don't think CR has tested a Focus with the 2.3L engine yet. But its EPA rating is almost identical to that of the Zetec. And the Focus is rated just average in reliability, the Prius and HCH much above average. |
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Hi Backy: ___I haven’t even heard a rumor that Ford was going to Hybridize the Focus? Have you? What would there be to explain? If the Hybridized car cost more then the fuel cost savings you will receive, why do it? If there was a great performance increase as well as better fuel economy, then you might have something but every Hybridized automobile available to us today is as slow as some of the slowest cars on the road. At least you have gotten over the PZEV Emissions ratings between the two. Mileage: C/D observed: 04 Prius: 42 mpg 04 Focus Wagon: 27 mpg http://caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=7- 701&page_number=4 http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=16&article- _id=7872&page_number=2 ___This is using the much more powerful, economical, and cleaner 2.3 L Duratec designed PZEV based engine, not the older Zetec designed one. ___At least you have finally recognized what the value champ really is? Have you considered the HCH as an alternative? If you wait long enough, the Hybrid Accord will be available but I can bet it will be pushing $30K and at that cost, it won’t match the value of the LX based Accord imho. ___Good Luck ___Wayne R. Gerdes |
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Sorry, you were talking about CR so much I thought your mpg numbers came from there. C/D is is. I'm sure they were driving moderately, trying for best fuel economy with both cars, as those C/D editors typically do (NOT). Recall I had asked if anyone had heard of plans to hybridize the Focus. It was my (unsuccessful) attempt to steer back to the topic of this board. I will give up now, go do my chores on this lovely day and let others talk about what type of hybrid they would buy... PLEASE! As for "value champs"... I have my opinion of what the value champ is of the 5-door hatchback class, and it ain't the Focus, nor is it the Prius. 'nuff said about that, on this board anyway. |
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| Today, as usual I half watched the NASCAR Nextel cup race and one of the commentators mentioned that a Winston Cup driver is going to see how far he can go in a Escape hybrid on one tank of gas (not on a race track) the commentator went on to say the Escape hybrid was a combo gas electric and that it was "self re charging" - whats going on here, it was the Winton cup for the longest now NASCAR is talking up hybrids (Elliott Sadler won the race, in a Ford) | |
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