Last post on Sep 15, 2007 at 9:01 PM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
Mercedes-Benz CLS-Class, Mercedes-Benz R-Class
#177 of 441 Re: Good news for Mercedes fans... [scott1256]
May 18, 2005 (8:33 pm)
Yeah I guess, though a 90 day survey really doesn't say much imo. To the survey worshipers this means absolutely nothing until Mercedes is #1, not only in this survey but in the 3-5 year ones also.
Still though some improvement is better than none I guess. Hopefully there will be a corresponding improvement in the long term stats also. Thing is we have to wait until 2008 to truly find out how good the 2005 models are. Then again maybe not, CR does a one year survey. It will be out next April for the 2005 models.
#178 of 441 Mercedes
May 19, 2005 (2:18 am)
Not a "future model" but still:
#179 of 441 Jaguar top 5? Pointless survey...
May 20, 2005 (8:30 am)
Just proves my point that this kind of initial quality survey is pointless. Nobody I ever knew who owned a Jaguar would say it had quality on par with a Lexus over time...
And people talk of how Hyundai has improved initial quality. but look at it this way. For many people, the Hyundai will be the first new car they've ever owned. Either a first car, or the first new car after a life of used. Do you think these owners, when asked, will offer up a squeak or a rattle as a defect? Or point out other flaws? Or will they be so excited about the car, they will say how great it is unless it has a real problem?
I was given a brand new Mazda6 as a loaner yesterday (check engine light went on the C Coupe, likely an O2 sensor, very common problem in all makes). Anyway, I am the first driver of this car (24 miles) and while solid, there is a rear window squeak. As a perfectionist MB owner, I would report that in an initial quality survey, and that would be listed as a defect. But would a new owner of a cloth, base 4 cylinder Mazda6 report that same noise?
#180 of 441 Re: Jaguar top 5? Pointless survey... [ikramerica]
May 20, 2005 (9:23 am)
Good point. Just like every aspect of a car, build quality in the first few months is relative. How good might filet mignon taste to you if all you've ever eaten is mcdonalds?
#181 of 441 Re: Merc1 - thanks for the summary. [merc1]
May 20, 2005 (2:13 pm)
I second the concise message kudo. Interested in the AMG version of the new S class. Any insight?
#182 of 441 Edmunds catty remarks in News, not reviews
May 20, 2005 (8:56 pm)
Three of the latest news items at inside line.
Read all three "what this means" endings and you'll see what I'm talking about. Just petty comments that don't say anything about the article, or maybe the writer's attempt at being witty? It might even seem as if they are being "encouraging" but then again, implying that MB recalls are somehow the norm for them but not for others is sort of lame. I mean, what does an endurance record have to do with recall notices. Every maker has recalls, even Lexus:
Of course, in the news item a few days earlier, when MB was talking about trying to get rid of defects, edmunds says: "Mercedes is finally getting back to basics, but the damage is done. Restoring the reputation of the three-pointed star will be a long haul."
Well, it will be impossible if Edmunds actively tries to thwart it.
#183 of 441 Re: Edmunds catty remarks in News, not reviews [ikramerica]
May 20, 2005 (10:36 pm)
Exactly because statements like this: " Funny how the 1970 Mercedes can manage a million miles but the new ones have to be recalled within days" are like totally ridiculous and nothing more than hype. Like you pointed out Toyota just had a recall of massive proportions as did the whole industry last year.
This is unfortunately the burden Mercedes has to bear because they were seen as the best for so long and I think there is a large group of people that love to see an icon go down in flames. Considering as many times as Mercedes' cars have put cars from other companies to shame there are lot of people that are just chomping at the bit to see Mercedes finished. Ain't gonna happen folks.
#184 of 441 Re: Merc1 - thanks for the summary. [sgtmjr]
May 20, 2005 (10:41 pm)
Interested in the AMG version of the new S class. Any insight?
There will be two as there is now. The S65's V12 is rumored to carry over, but with more hp, 630hp to be exact. The S55 will be replaced by the S63, running a new DOHC, 32V, Direct-Injection 6.3L V8 with anywhere from 500-600hp depending on who you believe. These probably won't be shown for at least a another year after the base S-Class models are shown this fall.
The "regular" S should come in three flavors, S350 (268hp), S450 (325-350hp) and the S550 (380-414hp). We should know sometime in August what it will look like when Mercedes issues that all important first official photo and then of course it will debut at the IAA in Sept.
#185 of 441 Re: Jaguar top 5? Pointless survey... [ikramerica]
May 21, 2005 (6:49 am)
I was given a brand new Mazda6 as a loaner yesterday
I was given a Hyundai as a loaner while they serviced my Passat TDI (poorman's MB) I was so happy to get back into the Passat. Fit and finish to performance were all well below the VW. Going to Qualcom stadium to test the new MB M Class cars. Let you know what I think. I am waiting for the R class with CDI to make it here then back to owning a MB. I agree on the way they do these worthless surveys. CR rates the Prius "Most Reliable". at least 13 people and probably many more have been stranded by faulty software glitch. Hard to accept that kind of survey as objective.
#186 of 441 The 3 stages of success.....
May 21, 2005 (7:26 am)
2) Ponder and pout.
It is human nature to cheer the outsider taking over a market.
It is human nature to observe success and resent it.
It is human nature to pounce and overthrow a successful entity when they weaken.
Cadillac was cheered as they displaced Packard in the 40s and 50s. In the late 1970s and 1980s Mercedes displaced a floundering Cadillac and many of us cheered (I know I did).
Packard didn't survive stage 3.
Cadillac fought back strongly after an initial stage 3 retreat and has increased sales by over 50% in a short time.
Mercedes will solve their problems in 2-3 years - BUT - it may take 5-7 years to change public perception and stop the press sniping.