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Honda Insight, Toyota Prius, Engine, Alternative Fuels, Diesel, Hybrid Cars, Coupe, Hatchback, Sedan
#475 of 504 How does an econbox feel?
Apr 12, 2004 (1:18 pm)
The Prius feels like an econobox to me.
It is slow, it doesn't corner well, stopping is up in the air (some reports show short distances and others long; not consistant), when I drove one it was noisey, especially with the ICE running. The sound insulation is pretty thin and its highway noise, stealth or not is pretty noisey about the equvialnt of other economy cars, certainly not at a luxury level.
What I have right now is very quiet, very good performance, very reliable, very smooth, much better stereo, more plush, much better handling, much better braking, better looks, leater, powers seats ,sunroof and yes truly automaitc headlights.
The EPA is 18/25 on a 2002 Lexus IS300 5-speed manual shift. However, I only get about 21 with a daily 25 mile commute ( 15 miles at 80-85mph,5 miles at 50-65 mph, and 5 miles stop/go/stop go.
So would the increased mileage be worht it ? Not from the Prius.
I think the upcoming Accord Hybrid is a better solution
Not to cross post, more information on the other many many Edmund Hybrid links, but demand for Prius might fall off very sharply in a couple of months.
#476 of 504 Re: How does an econbox feel? [midnightcowboy #475]
Apr 12, 2004 (2:01 pm)
For 50% more money than a Prius, the IS300 had better be better in every respect than a Prius! If you're willing to spend $30k+ for a car, the IS300 is a fine one, and I expect the Accord hybrid will be also. I think it's good though that there are still some hybrids available in the $20k range. Not everyone can afford a $30k car.
Apr 12, 2004 (4:06 pm)
midnight was saying that from the perspective of the owner of a $30K sedan, Prius felt very much econobox to him. Can't argue with that - beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
FWIW, I never noticed noise levels in the new Prius to exceed those of other similarly priced Toyotas - Corolla, or my own Matrix at the time. And the gas engine is not noticeably noisier or coarser than either of those.
Some of what midnight says here
"What I have right now is very quiet, very good performance, very reliable, very smooth, much better stereo, more plush, much better handling, much better braking, better looks, leater, powers seats ,sunroof and yes truly automatic headlights."
could also be said in comparison with corolla/matrix, which has an available moonroof, more powerful stereos, and automatic headlights. But if you compare the base $20K Camry on many of these items, it would come out ahead. The Camry certainly has better sound suppression for the cabin, and a quieter engine than the Prius' ICE.
But the Prius is the smoothest around for its class, of that I am convinced. And stuff like the handling does not relate to "feel" IMO, but rather to performance.
If we accept that Prius is probably going to be Toyota's entry-level hybrid for a long time to come, I wonder how long they can hold the line on the $20K price tag. The thing is, with increasing competition from the Koreans and soon the Chinese, the price of true econobox compacts (ICEs) isn't likely to rise much for some time to come, either.
Apr 12, 2004 (6:05 pm)
___I donít know if this matters to some or not but the 03/04 Corolla is relatively quiet on the road once the engine settles down into a steady cruise Ö While it is accelerating however, it is a bit ungainly in the noise emission department just like the 04 Prius.
2004 Prius - Edmunds:
Db Idle: 53/lo
Db Full Throttle: 71
Db 70 mph Cruise: 74
2001 Prius - Car & Driver:
Db Idle: 45
Db Full Throttle: 70
Db 70 mph Cruise: 70
2003 Corolla LE - Car & Driver
Db Idle: 42
Db Full Throttle: 79
Db 70 mph Cruise: 70
2002 Camry (SE w/ V6) - Car & Driver. I would think the 4 cylinder would have higher dB output but I couldnít find dB output for the 02-04 Camry LE w/ the 4.
Db Idle: 37
Db Full Throttle: 70
Db 70 mph Cruise: 67
2003 Honda Civic Hybrid Manual - Car & Driver
Db Idle: 36
Db Full Throttle: 74
Db 70 mph Cruise: 73
___Wayne R. Gerdes
#479 of 504 Re: [xcel #478]
Apr 12, 2004 (6:47 pm)
Since all your other figures except the '04 Prius were from C/D, here's the C/D numbers for that car for a more direct comparison:
dB Idle, ICE off: 31 dBA
dB Idle, ICE on: 45 dBA
dB Full Throttle: 70 dBA
dB 70 mpg Cruise: 69 dBA
It seems the Prius is more like the V6 Camry in the full-throttle noise department, rather than the Corolla.
Apr 12, 2004 (7:05 pm)
You're right -- performance doesn't mean as much to them or to the Europeans, largely because of the congestion and, in Japan's case, taxation on larger, more powerful, heavier cars. That's why a lot of what they sell there doesn't move over here.
#483 of 504 nippononly (#469)
Apr 13, 2004 (5:48 am)
Yes! It came as a surprise to me as well, when Sanyo disclosed its contract to supply batteries to Honda for upcoming Accord V6 hybrid (in Japan and North America). I was expecting the 2.4 liter I-4 to be the engine of choice (in Accord and/or TSX) to be mated to IMA, not the V6.
Later, American Honda mentioned the same.