Last post on Apr 14, 2004 at 10:10 AM
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Honda Insight, Toyota Prius, Engine, Alternative Fuels, Diesel, Hybrid Cars, Coupe, Hatchback, Sedan
Apr 11, 2004 (12:20 pm)
Sure hope this stuff never gets out, or Toyota will have to pull the Prius from the market.
Apr 11, 2004 (12:36 pm)
___Maybe you donít remember the fuel tank capacity of some GM P/Uís being understated by ~ 8%. GM was sued for that misstep. Do you think anything like that is occurring with the 04 Prius? Maybe they should remove it from the market because it cannot hold 11.9 gallons of fuel let alone a mere 10 gallons in many cases Hopefully they will have a fix for this in the not to distant future. Other PZEVís are not having this problem so it appears to be something peculiar to the 04 Prius alone?
___Wayne R. Gerdes
#467 of 504 the Accord hybrid
Apr 11, 2004 (2:30 pm)
will have the V-6 engine in combo with IMA? I am very surprised, I would have expected them to use the 4-cylinder and a more powerful version of the IMA from the HCH.
#468 of 504 I seriously doubt
Apr 11, 2004 (7:20 pm)
Toyota will have to pull the Prius from the market for ANY reason. You may consider it inferior to other hybrids in a variety of ways (and you may be correct in some of your points); but Toyota generally does a really good job sweating the details, and they prevailed against the State of California when they tried to fine Toyota for nonexistent problems with their fuel tank vents.
I also find it hilarious that US editors generally credit Honda with the first full production hybrid, when in fact it was Toyota. Honda slapped the Insight together to beat Toyota to the US market, but the Prius was on sale in Japan for three years previous to that.
Also, because of Japan's tax structure and stricter environmental standards, I doubt there are any significant problems with Prius' performance, or they would have had problems in the home market.
Apr 11, 2004 (9:37 pm)
I said, replace ICE and Power Splitting Device(PSD) with fuel cell stack to turn into FCHV. You need to review how HSD really works.
HSD can maintain battery State Of Charge(SOC) minimum level much better than Honda's mild hybrid IMA design. HSD can climb hill and charge battery at the same time. On the other hand, IMA requires you to hit the brake to charge the battery.
If 76HP Atkinson engine is anemic, how come Prius(2,890lbs) accelerate faster than Insight(1,900lbs) from 0-60 or 30-60 mph? HSD superiority will be obvious when there are larger hybrids to compare with. I can't wait for Accord hybrid vs. Camry hybrid.
Apr 12, 2004 (12:08 am)
___As for pulling the Prius from the market, I was being facetious myself As for Japanese performance and environmental std.ís, the 04 Prius is not even a PZEV in Japanís home market! An SULEV is a possibility but it is not a PZEV. On the performance side of the equation, they sold the original Prius with even less performance then the one they sold here. I donít think performance matters to them as much as it does us for some reason? More congestion possibly?
___Usbseawolf2000, pull the PSD and ICE to make the FCHV? You seem to be missing the fact that a Fuel Cell is an electricity producer, not a mechanical energy producer. Once you are back to electricity, all you have are MG sets and the only thing a Hybridís pack can do is add assist to the Fuel Cellís electricity already being produced. If the fuel cell can be sized properly, the pack and extra MG sets would be a total waste.
___As for the IMA in the HCH or Insight, you need to look up how it works. Not only is their charging without your foot on the brake, there is charging while climbing hills, coasting down hills, accelerating, and while cruising merrily along down the highway. You can even speed up charging simply by turning the headlights on.
___In regards to the 04 Priusí anemic Atkinsonized ICE, the 5-speed Insight is anemic as hell as well and I know this to be a fact because I own one! The part you are missing is that once the packís are drained some given amount in any of the Hybridís, the performance of the entire system suffers a given amount. In the case of the Insight 5-speed without a completely drained pack, it can smoke the 01-03 Prius even if it had a full pack. It can smoke the 04 Prius w/ anywhere from ~ Ĺ to 0% SOC by a long shot as well. That does not make it a performance automobile by any stretch of ones imagination. The only reason that the 04 Prius can make it to 60 in 9.8 - 11.2 seconds is because the pack offers the extra amount of energy need to accomplish the task. Once the pack is drained even a small percentage, its performance begins to suffer until such time you are back to the 76 HP 1.5 L and when you rely on it alone, you may as well get out and run for all the faster that thing is Just kidding on the run part but anything that can do 0 - 60 in 14.8 seconds will outrun the 04 Prius in that condition. I cannot think of an automobile that is that slow to 60 mph off the top of my head other then the 01-03 Prius with a drained pack, can you?
___Wayne R. Gerdes
#471 of 504 there definitely are some
Apr 12, 2004 (7:42 am)
that are close, like the VW van, perhaps the Mini non-S/C? Chevy Aveo? Jetta 2.0? Kia Sorento? There are a number of 12-13-second 0-60s on the market right now, at various price points.
#472 of 504 Maybe the Prius...
Apr 12, 2004 (8:23 am)
would at least be able to blow off a '79 Cutlass with a 260 Diesel?
Apr 12, 2004 (8:56 am)
Hey, the Aveo is good for sub-9 second runs! Don't throw it in with those other junkers. It's practically rocket powered.
Apr 12, 2004 (10:27 am)
There have been lots of high mileage econoboxes, thing is Prius doesn't feel at all like an econobox. That may be why demand is so high, there isn't the usual trade-offs associated with very fuel efficient cars.