Last post on Apr 14, 2004 at 11:10 AM
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Honda Insight, Toyota Prius, Engine, Alternative Fuels, Diesel, Hybrid Cars, Coupe, Hatchback, Sedan
#190 of 504 MT just released a very interesting comparison
Mar 26, 2004 (7:07 pm)
Of the 2003 Prius, 2004 Prius, the Insight and the Civic Hybrid.
The "real-world tested" economy tests runs, on an 18 mile city/highway loop in California, with all four cars driven over two days, NOSE TO TAIL, came out as follows:
Insight - 55/67/60
2004 Prius - 52/54/53
2003 Prius - 50/54/52
Civic Hybrid 43/50/46
MT seemed to like the new Prius as the best car overall, siting superior acceleration times, smoother ride, and the aforementioned mileage advantage compared to the Civic hybrid.
Basically the test was set up as how far Hybrids have come over the past few years, in room, refinement, economy, and value.
They also brought out the fact that the Toyotas lost more performance than the Hondas when the batteries lose power.
About this new Hybrid expert we have here, it is pretty obvious (to most people) that at least Toyota wants to iron out Hybrid Tech on a new nameplate (Prius) before rushing a new powerplant onto established names like Highlander and Camry that are worth hundreds of millions of dollars! I THOUGHT that was pretty clear.
Now that the Prius is a certified blue-chipper, with no real recalls or other reliability issues that affect many (non-Honda/Toyota) new vehicles, and a track record of quality, now they can DIVIDE AND CONQUER!
In conclusion, yes, Hybrids ARE so great! Not entirely on there own, but what new abilities they afford cars, trucks, and SUV's.
This NEW technology will allow us to have 300HP SUV's with 25 MPG, or even more power while delivering the same MPG. Makers could make cars MUCH more fuel efficient, but the cars would lose TOO MUCH HP, which buyers love AND BUY more, so efficiency will rise moderately in the more mainstream vehicles that will employ Hybrid tech.
Buyers want power and features, no one brags that their car gets 35 MPG! Now if it did it while going to 60 in 6 seconds.....then you have something to tell you friends.
The future is coming faster than you think.
And I'll be the first to thank Honda/Toyota for bringing it here while I'm still young enough to enjoy it! As long as it doesn't make stick-shifts obsolete!
And to GM, hows that OHV engine coming along? I hear you've actaully toyed with Variable Valve Timing? Congratulations!
Mar 27, 2004 (8:15 pm)
"Why are only two automakers selling them to the public?"
Because Supercar project was killed by the Bush administration. The reason? People are buying more SUV but 80MPG Supercar project was geared toward family car type. For detail documentary about Supercar project that Clinton administration jump started, check it out here: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/specials/car/one/chi-startingu- p-special.special
You'll need to register but trust me, it is worth it! There are three parts to it and each part has 6-7 pages.
Mar 27, 2004 (8:29 pm)
"Throw away the batteries and electric motor on an Insight and it weighs 1300 lbs."
Which common sense did you use to come up with 1300lbs ICE only Insight? I'll suggest another way to do the math. Look at Civic EX auto (2,668 lbs) and Civic Hybrid CVT (2,736 lbs). The difference is only 68 lbs.
Mar 27, 2004 (8:33 pm)
"Maybe hybrids are just a fraud"
Woooo stop! Care to explain such a inflammatory statement?
"You can believe me, or write me off as some kook. "
I am not going to write you off as some kook and I don't believe you. I strongly disagree with the statements that you made.
Mar 27, 2004 (8:45 pm)
Because it is how cars should be made. Hybrid Synergy Drive simplifies the whole car mechanically. HSD has advantages of both gasoline and electric worlds. Going further in detail of hybrids, HSD even has the best of both Series and Parallel hybrid designs.
I am not aware of any other mid-size car with about 2,900 lbs weight and equipped with 76 horse power internal combustion engine that can do 0-60 in about 10 seconds. BTW, I just described a 2004 Prius.
#195 of 504 Entire package important...
Mar 27, 2004 (9:59 pm)
>>I am not aware of any other mid-size car with about 2,900 lbs weight and equipped with 76 horse power internal combustion engine that can do 0-60 in about 10 seconds. BTW, I just described a 2004 Prius.
One has to consider the entire package. I couldn't pack for a weeks vacation with only 16 cu feet of cargo space. The size of the prius is the limiting factor. I will be interested in the real world performance of the larger hybrids when they arrive.
The current size is useful for around town and as a commuter, but not a multi purpose family car that I can use for all conditions.
#196 of 504 Re: Entire package important
Mar 27, 2004 (11:06 pm)
Since when must a vehicle fulfill every possible need?
That's the kind of mindset that got us into the monster-sized SUV mess in the first place.
Owning a massive vehicle for the rare chance that you might actually need that much internal space or towing power is quite a waste.
Years ago, people used to have "the other vehicle" for special uses, like vacations. For my family, it was a full-size conversion van. And before that could be afforded, we would just strap a roof-top carrier onto the family car. We didn't try to make excuses like some do now. It was no big deal. It worked just fine.
Mar 28, 2004 (2:48 am)
there's no discussion of hemis here? They are in the title, for goodness' sake!
While very cool, the hemi is actually the exception to the rule right now...a lot of the new GM and Ford entries to arrive in the next year or two are midpack at best in their segments, in terms of power.
From what I have seen, "hemi" has more cachet than "hybrid" does, to their respective audiences (sales are jumping up faster for models with the hemi available, than for hybrids). And neither is well understood by more than half of the people who flock to them and buy them.
#198 of 504 Good point...
by pf_flyer HOST
Mar 28, 2004 (8:04 am)
To widen the focus of this topic, I've made a small change to the title. Kept the "hemi" up there for the cachet value, but now the title reflects a more general ICE/hybrid comparison topic.
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