Last post on Nov 17, 2008 at 12:27 PM
You are in the Audi S4
What is this discussion about?
Audi S4, BMW M3, Sedan
#202 of 275 Re: darn confising cars [m3_r1]
Dec 02, 2005 (2:47 pm)
Since you have been responding to my posts, albeit in a slightly immature and disrespectful way, I will respond to your 3 points before I leave this thread altogether. The host really should kill this thread. It's dead anyway, it has been for a while, and while I have tried to post nothing but hard facts by Consumer Reports, I keep getting stupid responses like "I don't know where you get you information". BMW owners like you don't seem to listen, nor to you want to take part in constructive dialogue. You're only here to berate people who own Audi's to make yourself feel better about what you bought.
1. I don't think it's a good idea to trade in a car. Dealers will never give you what the car is worth. Trading in cars is a ripoff and people who do it without a second thought must have more money than sense. It's an issue of convenience, nothing more. CR gave both the M3 and the S4 identical "best" ratings when it comes to resale value. They made no mention of trade-in values.
2. Who cares? This is by no means a "serious issue". It's petty.
3. Again, who cares? The only reason someone should care about something like this is if they live in the sticks and are faced with traveling a great distance to get their car fixed.
Fact: The Audi A4 is more highly recommended by Consumer Reports than any BMW, and don't even try to claim otherwise because I'm reading it straight out of the Consumer Reports New Car Preview 2006 as I'm sitting here. Also, with the exception of the engine and a few minor mods, the A4 and the S4 are pretty much the same car. CR is down on the S4's reliability based on older models that share NOTHING in common with the 2004+ S4's. That makes their reliability claim meaningless because they are comparing an apple with an orange.
Fact: There are more Audi's on the road in Germany than BMW or Mercedes. The cars they import to the US are mechanically identical to those in Germany with the exception of cars being sold in the Northeast US and in California because of emissions standards, and those are just minor modifications. If you're claiming that Americans are stupid for buying Audi's then you're making the same statement about Germans as well. I've been to Germany on more than one occasion and I've never met a group of people who are more particular about what they choose to drive.
Finally, Consumer Reports is NOT the last word on European cars. Audi's may have a not-so-great reputation for reliability, but BMW's are not so great either. If you want the best in reliability, go buy a Toyota, though you're not going to look as good nor feel as good driving one.
#203 of 275 well
Dec 02, 2005 (3:20 pm)
we can kill it or we can ignore any posts that are nothing more than sarcasm and derision and continue amongst those of us who are truly interested in a serious and respectful comparison of the cars ... that last choice gets my vote, because I think we have enough folks who are contributing in a reasonable and productive manner to sustain this. We just need to, well, I already said.
#204 of 275 S4 vs M3 or BMW vs Audi
Dec 02, 2005 (5:55 pm)
i just test drove last week an M3 with the competition package and an S4. while both are beautiful automobiles the edge goes to the S4 for every day use. the awd, 4 doors, V8,and the available tiptronic and 6 speed transmissions make the Audi infinitely more practical and useful than the one dimensional M3. for the "show your taillights" crowd the M3 is your only option but for the other 99.9% of the car buying public the Audi is much more enjoyable. and for the record...i love BMW's and Audi's. i've owned an 03 M5 and currently have a SWB A8 so certainly can't be accused of being a misguided fan boy!
#205 of 275 Re: darn confising cars [_matty]
Dec 02, 2005 (6:15 pm)
Actually I own a Toyota Supra Turbo and I do look and feel as good as when I drive my M3. I'm not sure what cars are more abundant in Germany because I live in the United States and Consumer Reports caters to those of us who live here. You claim the Audi A4 is more recommended than BMW by Consumer Reports? Get real, In your last post you actually claimed the Audi was rated worse by Consumer Reports and BMW was rated Average. Now you claim the same Consumer Reports puts the Audi ahead of BMW? I'm not sure what you are really quoting from but it's certainly not the Consumer Reports I read. ONCE AGAIN THE REAL CONSUMER REPORTS.
"The S4 is quick, has a beautifully crafted interior, and delivered the best fuel economy of the group. It has a very tight rear seat, though, and on our track it lacked the at-the-limit handling finesse of the BMW and Cadillac."
"See a summary of test findings and Quick Picks--the choices that merit first consideration.
In a sports car we look for quickness, agility, and responsiveness. Comfort, convenience, and fuel
economy are important, but less so than with regular cars. Of the nine cars listed in the chart below, we recommend three. The Audi S4 (1) and Cadillac CTS-V (5) have had below-average reliability in their standard versions, the A4 and CTS, respectively, so we cannot recommend them. We lack reliability data on the Mazda RX-8 (4), Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution (6), Pontiac GTO (8), and Chrysler Crossfire (9).
The Ratings rank vehicles based on their overall score in our tests, irrespective of price or reliability. Recommended models ( ) not only tested well but have shown average or better reliability, and performed at least adequately if crash-tested or included in a government rollover test. Quick Picks are recommended models that in our judgment deserve special consideration based on your needs".
All four cars have a strong engine and manual transmission, and can accelerate from 0 to 60 mph in less than 6 seconds. The Audi and Cadillac are four-door sedans, while the BMW and Pontiac are two-door coupes. The Audi is all-wheel drive, while the others use rear-wheel drive. The M3 is the only one that meets all of our criteria for being recommended. (See CR Quick Recommendations for more details.)
You can claim all day that you bought something that says this or that. Because we are on the web I use a source that anyone on the web can use and check for themselves without having to take my word for it.
You answered my points by saying "who cares or I don't care". Myself and millions of others like me care about resale values, the availability of performance upgrades, and shops that can expertly repair a car if the dealer happens to be backed up and can't take care of you for a few weeks. Yes, there are many who do care about the things I have written about and have taken the time to thank me for with informing them concerning the facts.
Nice try though .
#206 of 275 Re: Want to know positives/negatives of S4 and M3 [_matty]
Jan 05, 2006 (7:29 pm)
ok .. i do agree that you can own any car you want but if you can't drive it it wont beat the lowest end kia .. but since you talk like a pro and since im pretty confident in the way i can drive my stage 3 dinan m3, if i did happen to see you i would run all over you bc even in stick the fastest you can get that s4 with AWD, woo hoo is 5.3 .. thats if you are car and driver perfcet .. i've run my car to 4.7 on tracks around CT and i feel good about that time. and yes the audi has a V8 that still cant beat that amazing straight 6 that has always kept that M3 on top.. and you cannot bring up the point that its a better all year car because if we were talking about that then yes audi is better but not at accelleration nothing will ever beat the M Power Engine. ONCE AGAIN THERE ARE SOME FACTS FOR YA ..
#207 of 275 Re: Want to know positives/negatives of S4 and M3 [dinanm3]
Jan 14, 2006 (10:48 pm)
To sum up everything here.....I currently own a Audi S4 which is amazing!! It will take any M3 any day any time...I am pushing out 22PSI on my twin turbo's (try to do that in a M3...I don't think soo)...I am running a 4.1-4.2 0-60....No stock car is amazing unless you spend over $250,000....It is a personal opinion...the AWD will pull like an animal off the line....I think that that the V6 bi-turbo is better designed and is much, much more able to be upgraded than the V8.....and best of all, my car is only Stage II.....in the next couple of months I am going to do a Stage III conversion.....around 35PSI twin turbo....
#208 of 275 Re: Want to know positives/negatives of S4 and M3 [burningrubber]
Jan 23, 2006 (9:00 am)
Hi burningrubber. You're entitled to your opinion, but any car in my opinion that has to be tuned to 22 psi to compete with a naturally aspirated engine in my eyes is...well...underachieving. Like no one gives credit to any SAAB or Volvo engine, (because they're ALL basically turbocharged) I don't think this particular engine deserves anymore merit than a naturally aspirated V6 that supplies more than enough power. BMW isn't concerned with "cheap horsepower" wars, if that were the case they'd throw a blower on every car made...yet...there isn't one single forced induction BMW (other than aftermarket). They are concerned with quality, and for that, there's very little argument about which top tier luxury cars are made the best....Audi is still pawing at the level that BMW and Mercedes have created. For a car to be boosted within an inch of it's life to compete with other naturally aspirated cars in it's class says something. And or your other comment, "No stock car is amazing unless you spend over $250,000"...like I said, you are entitled to your opinion...but that's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. There are plenty of cars out there that are amazing that don't cost over $250,000....(you could even find them on this website)...and how many cars OVER $250,000 have you driven??
#209 of 275 Re: Want to know positives/negatives of S4 and M3 [burningrubber]
Jan 23, 2006 (10:21 am)
I dont want to really rain on your parade... but it really sounds like your full of ****.... I dont mean to be harsh or critical cause i love audi's... I have a 2002 s4... I have a hard time believing that your first of all running 22psi on stage 2..... maybe you are... but then running a 4.1... I have a stage 3.. and i dont think i run a 4.1 and there is NO way you will run 35 psi.. I dont know of any street cars pushing 35 psi that are non-diesel. Ive heard of a few cars doing just over 30, but they are also puttng down huge hp. Right now, autospeedperformance just came out with a GT25R twin turbo kit for the s4 thats making about 500 whp.. which is the highest ive seen and its max boost is 28. So please tell me what you have done to your car to be making these numbers....
#210 of 275 Re: Want to know positives/negatives of S4 and M3 [m382]
Jan 23, 2006 (10:51 am)
I have to say, that was a very lame argument. What makes "cheap horsepower".. just because it comes from a turbo?? so what.. Horsepower is horsepower, i dont care where it comes from. Why is it underachieving if its using a turbo. I would call it maximizing output. No one is giving credit to volvo's or saab's because they arent tuned for performance... same reason no one is giving a 323i credit for being fast... Those are quite frankly dumb statements. And another thing, audis were by far boosted from an inch of their life.. if anything the b5 (2.7l TT v6) wasnt all that highly tuned stock.. thats why its such a popular modding car, because you can unleash a lot of power from it. The stock turbos and ecu's were restrictive. Now you want to show me where there is much room for modification on an m3.. There is a little, but your not going to find huge gains, and now show me which one is pushed to an inch of its life. But dont get me wrong..i am a big fan of both cars. BMW did make an impressibve engine to be getting that output from an inline6. I have an s4, but if i didnt have to drive in winter i prob woulda gotten an m3 just cause i think its more aggresive looking. My other odd point that i saw a few pages back was that the CR report said that they both hold similar value.. fact is M3 is holding its value better than the b6 (v8) s4.
#211 of 275 Re: Want to know positives/negatives of S4 and M3 [m382]
Jan 23, 2006 (12:15 pm)
As for Volvo, I drove their 300hp R version and it felt quite "junky" to me. Sweeks, rattles, cheap plastic everywhere. Didn't feel very quick and the engine wheezed like it had asmatha. I can't see paying 45k for this car.
I'd rather have the 255hp Sline 3.2 Quattro over the Volvo 300hp Turbo R anyday. The Volvo isn't anywhere in the same book in terms of fit and finish and overall solid feel.