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Sedans Audi S4 Audi S4 vs BMW M3
275 messages, Last post on Nov 17, 2008 at 11:27 AM
You are in the Audi S4 Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
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Replying to: m3_r1 (Nov 30, 2005 3:58 pm) The point I am trying to make is that no one is going to pay attention to anyone who is posting with the vitriol that has been contained in nearly all of the posts that have been made here lately. So I guess it boils down to do you want to create a post that might mean something to someone, or are you just going to to post messages that 95% of the readers will dismiss because it is sarcastic and attacking. I'm not just talking to you, I'm talking to everyone that has been involved in the recent sniping and insulting posts that have been flying around. If anyone has any further comments about the management of this discussion, you need to email me, not post them here. As I've said, I think now is the third time, if we're not going to discuss the cars in a reasonable and respectful manner, there is no point to this discussion. Thanks to anyone and everyone who is willing to do what's necessary to sustain this!!
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Replying to: pat (Nov 30, 2005 4:12 pm) I apologize for being offensive to any and all. I certainly don't want to see this thread go away, and am willing to be less offensive to ensure it's longevity. Now, has anyone seen the Top gear {British car show} report on the M3 vs S4? It had the M3 quicker thru the quarter mile by half a car length, but over a second slower thru the course they had set up. 1 Pro driver, timed event. They said the same thing that MOST all pretty much said. M3 for track car, S4 for everyday driving. I'm not any good at posting links but I'm sure you can go to the Top gear website and download it. Happy holidays to all 
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Replying to: m3_r1 (Nov 30, 2005 1:57 pm) Well, sure. That's an all encompassing truth no matter what vehicle you're driving in the snow short of a snow cat. The #1 issue for me as to why I prefer an AWD over a 2WD is so I don't have to chain up whenever I need to go somewhere. Who here likes putting chains on a vehicle? .........That's what I thought. Besides, I'd be horrified if I saw someone driving an M3, or anything similar, with chains slapped on the tires. Chains are bad for your vehicle and when they break (and they always do sooner rather than later) you're looking at some costly body damage as a result, even if you do manage to pull over quickly. The fact that the M3 is a 2WD coupe really does put it in a different category anyway. I see hoards of BMW's on the road. I also see about as many A4's as I do BMW's, but I don't see too many S4's. I kind of like having a car that not everyone owns. I love my S4 and it suits my needs quite well. I test drove an M3 on the advice of a BMW-loving friend of mine, but the fact that it was a 2WD as well as a 2 door were major reasons why I didn't go for it. The ride was also not as pleasant and the I6 whined where as the V8 in the S4 growled. Practically identical gas mileage as well which kind of surprised me given the 2 extra cylinders in the S4. So if you live where it never snows, and you absolutely must own a car that can beat an S4 to 60mph by a measely half a car length, and you don't mind seeing your old mum struggle trying to get into the back seat then the decision between the two cars may be tough. Of course, if you already suffer from manufacturer bias then none of what I said means anything anyway. Keep an open mind everyone and at the very least test drive both vehicles before you decide to bash one of them.
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Replying to: pat (Nov 30, 2005 4:12 pm) But it only takes (1) BMW guy to start calling the S4's lemons and saying they're inferior cars. We all know that isn't true. You never know who you're talking to on the internet. It could be some 15 year old kid who doesn't even have a drivers license, let alone a M3. Just take the high road and talk to sensible people.
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Replying to: _matty (Nov 29, 2005 1:15 pm) But seriously, the S4 is just more practical, not necesarily better. |
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Replying to: _matty (Nov 30, 2005 9:14 pm)
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After I sat here for a few days and read posts from BMW lovers claiming that Consumer Reports bashed the S4 and praised the M3, I decided to find out the real truth for myself. I forked over $6 for a Consumer Reports New Car Preview 2006 at the grocery store today and I'm going to summarize what the magazine said. Just a note, I didn't include every single comparison, but I didn't leave out anything that would skew the results and mislead anyone. I left out body dimensions and such which I don't think is relevant to the point I'm trying to make anyway. This comparison is based on the newest model of each car that was tested by CR, so I'm assuming the rest of you are using the same data. Price as tested: S4=$50,870. M3=$56,495. Road test score: Both cars scored the highest rating of 99/100. CR was extremely impressed with the road capabilities of both cars. Accident avoidance: Both cars tied for the best possible rating. Side air bags: S4 got a best rating. No data for the M3. Overall MPG: S4=20. M3=19. Shocking, since the S4 is a V8 an the M3 is an I6. Overall, CR gave the S4 an average rating for fuel economy while the M3 got a below average rating. Safety Features: Both cars tied for Traction/Stability, ABS, Air Bags and head protection. The M3 offers daytime running lights as an available option, where the S4 does not. Both were pretty much tied on safety belts except that the rear safety belts in the S4 have Pretensioners while those in the M3 do not. Crash and Rollover Tests: The S4 scored a good or best rating in every category (no surprise). There was no data for the M3 in any of the categories. Acceleration: 0-30mph: S4=1.7 M3=1.9. 30-60mph: S4=5.3 M3=5.1. 1/4 mile: S4=13.9  101mph. M3=13.8 103mph. Performance Convenience and Comfort: In the 12 categories, the cars tied in 8 of them. Of the other 4 categories, the S4 edged out the M3 in all of them except one, the M3 got a slightly better rating in emergency handling. Depreciation: Both cars scored 5/5, so you BMW owners who claim that the M3 runs circles around the S4 when it comes to this category are mistaken according to CR. In fact, this has been one of your main gripes about the S4 and I just found out today that your claim is a little dubious according to CR. Reliability History: This is the big one which is why I saved it for last. In the 15 categories, the M3 got a below average or worst rating in 5 of them including Transmission (worst); Electrical, Body Integrity, Power Equiptment, Body Hardware (below average). As for the S4, it got a below average rating in only one of the 15 categories, Power Equiptment, and no worst ratings. The overall scores for reliability were 57/75 for the M3 and 63/75 for the S4. The last comparison has to do with predicted new car reliability and this is the category that I question the most, and not because I'm trying to defend the S4. The M3 scored -17% which barely falls into the "average" rating. Average included everything from +20% to -20%. The S4 scored -46% which barely falls into the "worst" rating. Anything -45% or lower is given a "worst" rating. The problem with this category is the word "Predicted". That means CR is basing their predicting on older models and they use owner surveys as the basis for these predictions. It is a fact that the older S4's from 2000 and 2001 with the V6 engines were problematic. I see no reason why this should be used as a basis to knock the new S4's which have a completely different engine, as well as a more reliable engine according to CR. I don't know what kind of engine BMW was using in it's 2002 and 2003 M3's, but CR gave those engines a "worst" rating as well. The bottom line here is that the BMW lovers in this thread who have been bashing the S4 claiming it's reliability sucks are mistaken acoording to the very source they have been using to defend their claims. In fact, the M3 is the vehicle that gets an overall lower reliability rating and CR's main knock on the S4 is based on nothing but a prediction using data from older and dissimilar model. That is the ONLY reason they do not recommend the S4. Sorry for the long post, but I feel that this info is very important and should be considered by all. Do any of you BMW lovers out there have any issues with these facts? In hindsight, both of these cars appear to be almost a virtual tie according to CR. They recommend the M3, but only barely and they don't recommend the S4 based only on past issues, not present issues. Those who say the S4 is inferior are only stating their opinion which doesn't seem to have any basis in fact at this point. It comes down to nothing more than buyer preference, and from what CR says, buyers of either vehicle will be happy with what they get. |
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Replying to: m3_r1 (Dec 01, 2005 3:31 pm) CONSUMER REPORTS: "The S4 is quick, has a beautifully crafted interior, and delivered the best fuel economy of the group. It has a very tight rear seat, though, and on our track it lacked the at-the-limit handling finesse of the BMW and Cadillac." "See a summary of test findings and Quick Picks--the choices that merit first consideration. In a sports car we look for quickness, agility, and responsiveness. Comfort, convenience, and fuel economy are important, but less so than with regular cars. Of the nine cars listed in the chart below, we recommend three. The Audi S4 (1) and Cadillac CTS-V (5) have had below-average reliability in their standard versions, the A4 and CTS, respectively, so we cannot recommend them. We lack reliability data on the Mazda RX-8 (4), Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution (6), Pontiac GTO (8), and Chrysler Crossfire (9). The Ratings rank vehicles based on their overall score in our tests, irrespective of price or reliability. Recommended models ( ) not only tested well but have shown average or better reliability, and performed at least adequately if crash-tested or included in a government rollover test. Quick Picks are recommended models that in our judgment deserve special consideration based on your needs". All four cars have a strong engine and manual transmission, and can accelerate from 0 to 60 mph in less than 6 seconds. The Audi and Cadillac are four-door sedans, while the BMW and Pontiac are two-door coupes. The Audi is all-wheel drive, while the others use rear-wheel drive. The M3 is the only one that meets all of our criteria for being recommended. (See CR Quick Recommendations for more details.) If Consumer Reports is not enough, I'll post something from yesterday that I'm still waiting on a response on. SERIOUS ISSUES TO CONSIDER BEFORE BUYING A S4: 1. When you visit a dealer and learn just how much less the S4 is really worth on trade in in comparison to the BMW M3. FOR THOSE WHO DON'T BELIEVE THIS GO TO KELLY BLUE BOOK AND SEE FOR YOURSELVES. Just type in both cars with simular equipment and see the results. 2. LEARNING THAT THERE ARE TEN TIMES THE AMOUNT OF PERFORMANCE PRODUCTS for the M3 compared to what is available for the S4. 3. Comparing the number of independent shops that specialize in repairing BMW's as to those that repair Audi's.
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Replying to: m3_r1 (Dec 01, 2005 4:45 pm) I just told you EXACTLY where I got my information. I got all of my information from the Consumer Reports New Car Preview 2006. I just bought it today. I have no interest in misleading anyone. I just read the #'s and posted them and I didn't change anything. What's your issue? Older Audi S4's (2000 and 2001) had reliability issues. They didn't make them in 2002 and 2003. Older M3's also had reliability issues (2002 and 2003), but you don't hear me griping about any of them. The past does not predict the future. |
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Replying to: _matty (Dec 01, 2005 4:48 pm) I couldn't have said this better myself. -17% for the BMW vs -46% for the S4. These numbers are light years apart. I would be embarrassed to admit my car company had that type of numbers for quality. You are beginning to see the light. Believe it or not past behavior can be a predictor of things to come. In the 1980's and 90's Audi was a joke for reliability in comparison to BMW and Mercedes. Using your own words you admit that the early 2000 models had reliability problems. So now we are to believe that Audi has finally gotten it's act together with the latest addition RS4 after all these years? Perhaps Audi should focus on quality rather than never ending name changes, over rated v8's and all wheel drive. Audi may be good at throwing various models at BMW but building quality cars is not one of them. The evidence speaks for itself. Let's see is it S4 or RS4?  (who knows these days).
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